9,000 year old mummy found in America

And that is largely what happened. We are not talking about the great tribal movements that happened across Berengia, but scattered small groups of fishermen or hunters, quite often blown off course.

But there is enough scattered relics that break the existing pattern, that such small numbers would have such effects, while leaving little DNA behind. Much like a drop of ink into a bucket of milk. But an existing small family group of 10-20 proto-Europeans could easily become absorbed by a larger group that migrated from the West Coast. Be it by conquest or peacefull merger, the technology would survive in the new merged group, but the gene strands would largely become extinct.

Especially as groups broke up, merged, split, and migrated over larger and larger areas. Bt far the largest migrant groups were those from North-East Asia, because they had the easiest access, via land. The others were more then likely sea travelers, mostly either blown off course, or exploring along the edges of pack ice in primitive boats, looking for new hunting or fishing grounds.

There have even been claims that there was pre-Columbian fishing of the Grand Banks. The claims are from Basque fishermen, who were not interested in anything other then the rich schools of cod in the region.

 

then we are largely in agreement on what could easily have happened- and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of that did happen, but there is no persuasive evidence that I have seen that makes it a done deal.

 

there is some scattered cultural (language and technology)that hints at more but nothing conclusive...

a very good point, Polynesians did engage in warfare/invasion and were certainly capable of battling with Incans and such but any early contact would have been occasional small parties and none in the numbers required to take on an established large cultures found along the s american coast...

 

the idea of drifting across the pacific is rather implausible, a journey like that would take over a year, water would become critical in days food supply in weeks...this wouldn't an accidental adventure it would need to be planned and with a sufficiently large group of people with women and children in order to have a viable population on completion...

and then you have to ask why? why wouldn't they travel to known destinations, china, korea, russia?...why risk all to a voyage into the unknown? these weren't dwelling island cultures like the Polynesians at ease with long sea voyages...

 

There are many who actually believe that the Pre-Columbian Central-South American god Quetzalcoatl might actually be the tale of European(s) arriving in the region.

Many of the depictions and legends around him are very unlike any of the other mytholigies in the region. He is depicted as a bearded man of unusually tall stature, with a flowing beard. This alone is very unusual, in a region of short, stocky men of dark complection with no significant facial hair.

Also all the religions in the region of this era practiced one for or another of human sacrifice. Yet the god Quetzalcoatl forbid human sacrifice.

Then add in a few other things, like the legend of his appearance from the "morning star" (Venus, which sets in the East), with his departure to the East and pledge to return, and you have what could possibly be the oral tradition legend of a European who traveled down to Central-South America, stayed for a time, then attempted to return home.

And there are other regional inconsistancies in his story and imagry, that point to a possible foreigner. The bringer of writing, books and the calendar. The bringer of new knowledge. And in his imagry, he is commonly depicted holding a bearded axe. In a neolithic culture, stone bearded axes are almost unknown because of the brittleness causes the beard to break off. But with even a primitive metal axe, beards were quite common even during the early bronze age (it allowed a larger cutting surface, without increasing the weight).

I believe that there were likely many such contacts over the thousands of years. And most either vanished into the oral traditions, or in a few rare occurances became the source of legends.

 

like the mayan 2012 end of days predictions or the crystal skulls hoax the perpetrators of these theories are not archeologists/anthropologists...there always seems to be someone who writes a book with early european contact(egyptians, phonecians, romans, atlantans) or aliens, what's wrong with the facts as they are?...why the need to credit europeans for native american cultural development?

 

I enjoy speculation as much as the next person, but yeah, there is often a hint or more than a hint that native americans couldn't have done this or that themselves.

 

a major annoyance with archeologists my daughter tells me is the top three archeology books sold all refer to weird speculative theories such end of days stuff or crystal skulls type topics...sad when the story that genuine evidence tells every bit as fascinating...

 

The most amazing factual find recently is the ultra-large civilization found in the Amazon basin, though covered over, is is clearly visible with satellite observation. Some artifacts have been found but the area is not good for preservation. I think it would be arrogant to believe that Columbus (or the Vikings) were the first culture besides those that crossed the Bering land bridge to inhabit the Americas'. DNA will be the final evidence determining heritage.

 

Are these the mummies that some indian nation has possession of and they won't allow DNA or other examination because of the political and financial implications?

 

aztecs and mayans both recognized Quetzalcoatl -the feathered serpant(hence the bearded look)...and both cultures practiced sacrifices, the mayans sacrifices were done in conjunction with the ball courts and the hero twins.

 

doing a Quetzalcoatl search on google results in an amazing number of referrals to the 2012 end of days fabrication...

 

The problem with trying to decipher the Mayan Calendar is that it is cycles inside of cycles.

2012 is not the end of the world, it is simply the end of a great cycle, and the beginning of another. Think of it as your car odometer rolling over. That is all the year is, nothing else. But those that believe in the end of the world refuse to see that.

And no, I do not claim that their development was nessicarily from outside influences. But when you have a largely static technological advancement, then suddenly you have a huge change in technology or culture, then it is static again, you have to look at outside influences.

And it goes both ways. Look how static warfare had become in Europe until the Trebuchet and then Cannon made their appearance from Asia.And the entire region was shaken with the creation of Bronze, then Iron, then Steel. Entire ages named after Asian creations that swept through Europe and changed how everything was done.

 

We only have to look at the Millenium panics. All related to an arbitrary number on a calendar which is at least a couple of years off by the best calculations.

 

The short answer is no.

 

The Amazonia civilization is fascinating to me because it seems like it would be such a difficult place to support a civilization. And yes, area is not good for preservation, plus any culture that used primarily wood and vegetable material(fabric) rather than bricks or pottery is much less likely to have many if any surviving artifacts.

 

I know how the mayan calender works that wasn't my point...my point was speculation by non archeologists all for the purpose of selling a book to a gullible public...

but you claimed Quetzalcoatl was a bearded man (european) but Quetzalcoatl isn't a man it's a feathered snake and the technology was stagnant, it wasn't the mayan cultural was influenced by an earlier Olmecs who also built large religious centers ....the mayan technology was an accumulation of knowledge not a sudden influx, these were intelligent people who were every bit as capable of developing an advanced civilization as any other people...

 

2000 Year Old Graves, Pyramid Ruins Found...

Mysterious 2,000-year-old graves, pyramid ruins found in Mexico
13 July`13 > Construction work in eastern Mexico exposed an ancient settlement, including 30 skeletons and the ruins of a pyramid, believed to be up to 2,000 years old, archaeology officials announced.

 

Now I will have to study this, it is fascinating

 

Genetic studies have shown American Indians and Northern Europeans more closely related than previously thought, scientists say. Using genetic analyses, scientists have discovered Northern European populations including British, Scandinavians, French and some Eastern Europeans descend from a mixture of two very different ancestral populations, and one of these populations is related to Americans Indians. Writing in the Genetics Society of America's journal GENETICS, researchers say the discovery helps fill gaps in scientific understanding of both American Indian and Northern European ancestry, while providing an explanation for some genetic similarities among what would otherwise seem to be very divergent groups. "There is a genetic link between the paleolithic population of Europe and modern Native Americans," study lead author Nick Patterson said. "The evidence is that the population that crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia into the Americas more than 15,000 years ago was likely related to the ancient population of Europe." DNA studies suggest one of the ancestral populations was the first farming population of Europe, whose DNA lives on today in relatively unmixed form in Sardinians and the people of the Basque Country, while the other ancestral population is likely to have been the initial hunter-gathering population of Europe. "The human genome holds numerous secrets. Not only does it unlock important clues to cure human disease, it also reveals clues to our prehistoric past," Mark Johnston, editor in chief of GENETICS said. "This relationship between humans separated by the Atlantic Ocean reveals surprising features of the migration patterns of our ancestors, and reinforces the truth that all humans are closely related."

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2012/11/30/DNA-shows-North-AmericaEurope-relation/UPI-65761354321821/