A Growing Split in the Catholic Church

Last week a message arrived that a group of Cardinals believes that Pope Francis should resign, to avoid a catastrophic split in the Catholic Church.
This conflict is organized by the most influential Catholic in the USA – Raymond Leo Burke, the Archbishop of Saint-Louis. In a couple of years, the ex-chairman of the Vatican Tribunal was able to unite around himself all those dissatisfied by “Pope Bergoglio”. The Cardinal had never tried to hide his enmity towards the current leader of Vatican. Rumors appeared that he had broken the Vatican’s unspoken rule of modesty, and intentionally appeared in public in the most expensive vestments, emphasizing his independence.
Moreover, when Pope Francis had in March 2016 for the first time expressed his doubts whether Donald Trump is a Christian, Cardinal Burke offered his help to the Presidential candidate.
After the U.S. Elections, Cardinal Burke together with some U.S. Cardinals started a spiritual counterattack, such as accusing the Pope of supporting gay people. Besides that, the Catholics of the USA are accusing the Pope for almost a year now of the most evil sin they can imagine – getting close with Putin. They were outraged the most by the words of the Pontific that the Russian President is “the only politician who protected the Christians in the Middle East”.
The first official visit of the Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Parolin to Russia sparked the controversy even more. Foreign press has started questioning, why “The peaceful Pope is praying for the more and more aggressive Putin?”
The Politico even asks, “Why does the Pontific like the Russian President so much?” And Iacopo Scaramuzzi, one of La Stampa’ experts with a good knowledge of Vatican “backstage”, suggested his version that Putin and the Pope want to “unite the Christians”. At the same time, the members of “conservative wing” within the Roman Church are strongly objecting the “Roman Apostle” playing with other confessions.
As a result, the Holy See is being shaken by scandals for a month now: at first, the third man in the state and the top inquisitor turned out to be pedophiles, and now top-ranking theologians are uniting against the Pope. Can it be that Pope Francis’s adversaries are searching for a way to dismiss him?
In the best case, the foes of the Pope can expect that he will acknowledge the fallacy of his statements himself like, for example, Pope John XXII in XIV century. Nevertheless, when one sees how Pope Francis reacts to critique of his scandalous statements, one must admit that it is an unlikely scenario.
Another option is to make the Pope resign at his own will. However, looking at the activities of the Pope towards the lustration of the Catholic clergy, that option seems impossible as well.

 

Why any rational person still goes to a Catholic church is a mystery.

 

They have the most rational theology of the Christian sects?

 

If you say so.

 

Well it is the first official Church and the oldest. So thousands of years of tradition . And has apostolic succession ! While the Pope is God's representative on earth. And they have nice rituals!

Or you could go to one of those churches that let rattle snakes bite them! To show their faith. If they live they have faith but if they die...well quite embarrassing that's for sure . Some even drink poison with similar outcomes.

But I prefer tantric Buddhism and yabyum .With a pretty young nun

 

I have checked out many different denominations over the years out of curiosity after being raised up in the southern baptist tradition.

I found the Episcopal church suited me the best. The American version of the Anglican church or church of england. Very similar to the RCC except their priests can marry which minimizes the raging homos and pedophiles as found in the RCC.

 

Most of them were brainwashed when they were small children. I can't see a rational adult converting to Catholicism.

 

There have been several that converted from other Christian denominations. But in terms of numbers, you are right, that is not so common, not compared to the numbers born into it.

In Christianity today, there is a lot more movement between different sects than people coming from the outside in.
Many Christian pastors/clergy have pointed this out and are concerned by it.

 

Well, in some ways this is correct, Catholics do have rock solid doctrine, no doubt due to the long tradition dating back so far. This does not mean their doctrine is neccessarily correct, but just means it is not logically refutable, and is on solid argumentative ground. There's a long tradition of Catholic philosophical analysis as well.

(Maybe there are only a small couple of points that could be argued with, like papal infallibility)

However, the long tradition also is a double edged sword, to some extent, carrying a long baggage of principles that were added on over the years, or further developed into more specific doctrines. Some might claim this means there are too many rules or it has been made too complex.

 

The Catholic Church has both a Liberal and a Conservative wing.

Some might wonder why the Liberals don't just join some other group like the Ecumenical Catholics.
But part of the issue is it's usually something you're born into, and it's a social institution as much as anything else, so it's not so easy to just get up and leave.
Thus a sort of "battle for the soul" of the Catholic Church is going on.

Sad to see politics and social values so intertwined with religion.

 

That isn’t saying much!

 

Ironically the Roman Catholic Church is very busy poaching entire Anglican and Episcopalian congregations and their priests inside the United States and Canada for the simple reason that they allow married priests to remain married and yet still become fulfilled Roman Catholics while RETAINING the Anglican traditions. This was a deal that Pope Benedict cut with them prior to being forced to retire and let Francis become Pope instead. Or at least that is the speculation inside the Church; that he was allowed to make that deal, but only if he were to step aside afterwards. You see the move REALLY pissed off the liberal infestation that smugly put Francis in charge afterwards . . . a man with known Marxist leanings.

 

Actually once the Church began cleaning up the leftist caused mess initiated after Vatican II went into effect older former Catholics began returning to the Church. It's all about tradition -- the traditions that the liberals that infested the Church inside the United States after Vatican II deliberately gutted. The Church IS tradition. Most Catholics interested in tradition don't really mind all that much that it includes the principles of Pay, Pray, and Obey.

 

It's not as revolutionary a step as some might think. Those priests are not allowed to remarry to another woman (i.e. if their wife dies). They're only allowed to keep that wife so long as the marriage took place before they joined the Catholic Church. In addition, these married priests do not entirely have all the same opportunities that unmarried priests do, and there are a few restrictions.

I do sort of wonder about someone who was baptized into the Catholic Church, then left, got married, became an Anglican priest for several years, and then wanted to come back to the Catholic Church.

I highly doubt that. A pope retiring is a huge thing, and mostly unprecedented. They would not have asked him to retire over something like this. Past popes have enacted much more controversial policies without having to be made to resign. In addition, there does exist some precedent for priests being able to marry, since they were only prohibited from doing so in the 11th Century, so it is not as if this new policy went against some fundamental unchangeable dogma.

There is plenty of speculation about Benedict possibly having been made to resign, but it would not have been over this.

 

As long as he is willing to go through the abbreviated course to become a RC priest then it's no problem. I am not sure how abbreviated the course is but I do know that the Anglican or Episcopalian priest is required to serve as a deacon for a time before being made a Roman Catholic priest.

 

When the deacons locked all the doors and brought the wooden shipping box up the center aisle I quick made me a new door.

 

Given the Catholic church's many sins the people are really brainwashed or else they would expel the evil priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes from their midst in accordance with 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (ERV) =
11 I meant you must not associate with people who claim to be believers but continue to live in sin. Don’t even eat with a brother or sister who sins sexually, is greedy, worships idols, abuses others with insults, gets drunk, or cheats people.

12-13 It is not my business to judge those who are not part of the group of believers. God will judge them, but you must judge those who are part of your group. The Scriptures say, “Make the evil person leave your group.”

The fact that they continue to tolerate such people as their leaders shows that they lack morals themselves.

 

Or that they're the only people who still have them. Why are some Christians so intolerant? It's certainly not a precept of theirs.

 

“Pope Francis has love and confidence in China and China trusts Pope Francis,” said Argentine Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, speaking at an organ donation and transplantation conference this weekend in Kunming, Southwest China. . .

The former bishop of Hong Kong, Cardinal Joseph Zen, said in an interview last week that the pope’s new policies in dealing with the Chinese Communist Party (CPC) are “killing” the underground Church in that country.

“Unfortunately, my experience of my contact with the Vatican is simply disastrous,” the cardinal said, adding that he is particularly distressed by the Vatican’s secret deal with Beijing over the naming of Catholic bishops and a subsequent document allowing Catholic clergy to register with the state-run church.

“There are three things,” Zen said. “A secret agreement, being so secret you can’t say anything. We don’t know what is in it. Then the legitimization of the seven excommunicated bishops. That’s incredible, simply incredible.”

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/12/09/vatican-bishop-china-trusts-pope-francis/

The Communists trust Francis, but the old underground church that is not Communist controlled does not trust Francis.

There should be a worldwide split of the Catholic church or Catholics should leave and become Orthodox.

 

Please don't post ignorance. The Catholic Church began taking in married Anglican priests in 1980--during Blessed Pope John Paul II's time as Pope.

 

My theory is that Benedict knew what was required of him in the near future as Pope--to weed out the pedophiles, and he simply knew he didn't have the strength to do it. He thought his successor could, but the Cardinals chose somebody that was only ten years younger, and not in great health, so that isn't happening.

 

I never said that none were admitted prior to Benedict. But he made it happen as a huge movement. Nonetheless, believe what ever makes you happy.

 

It's not and has never been a huge movement. A diocese can only have two of these, and per an article I read in 2017 there were only about120 of them in the United States (out of about 37,000 Catholic Priests in the U.S.). Love your exaggerations. Too bad they don't have much of a factual basis.


https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-married-priests-2017-story.html

 

It seems to me just a matter of time before sending children to Catholic Church becomes child abuse, at least socially if not by law. Why would ANYONE purposefully put their child in a position of possible sexual abuse.

 

These are the last words I am exchanging on this subject with someone unwilling to do any meaningful research before spouting about a subject. Look up the Principal Church for the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter established by the Holy Father to restore the Anglican Patrimony to the Catholic Church inside the United States of America. Or not. Buh-bye!