A Key Point Regarding the Jul. 25th Trump-Zelensky Call

A major part of some arguments posted on PF revolve around the charge that immediately after Zelensky mentions US aid, Trump asks for a favor. This struck me as being an assumption. I haven't been searching for confirmation, but have been keeping my eyes open. Can anyone confirm that?

President Zelenskyy (cont.)
"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. Specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This seems rather vague. There is no specific mention of any aid. In particular, the Ukrainian President's last sentence refers to them wanting to buy more missiles.

I have been unable to find confirmation, but this article reports that Ukraine's intention is to use their own money to obtain the Javelins. I don't know if the report is credible.

https://en.topwar.ru/162404-minoborony-ukrainy-zajavilo-o-prjamyh-zakupkah-v-ssha-ptrk-javelin.html

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I think we give them aid in various forms, including loan guarantees. Obama gave them blankets and night vision goggles which explains why Putin was able to march in and annex Crimea, violating agreements going back to 1994. We violated our commitment to defend them in 2005. Two Senators traveled to Ukraine to make the commitment to defend them if they disarmed. One was President when we allowed Putin to annex Crimea with no resistance.

Look up Poroshenko's speech to a joint session of Congress. Here's a discussion:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poroshenko-live-up-to-your-promise

 

What is it you need confirmed? In fact, after Z mentions the missiles, Trump says "I would like you to do us a favor though."

It's not assumption. It's on the Memo that Trump calls "the Transcript".

 

From listening to the witness testimony:

The $400,000,000 that Trump was holding up wasn’t cash but rather credits to buy US products. Most foreign aid comes this way. The Javelins are one of those US products. The testimony of Laura Cooper, I think it was, who said that the Ukrainians wanted to buy additional Javelins using their own money.


This reminds me of a point that seems to get lost. Foreign aide benefits US manufacturers, and provide for many American jobs.

 

What I want confirmed is that Zelensky specifically mentions aid; as in money.

 

Where does he say aid will be withheld if they do not investigate?

 

I corrected my post. I was meaning to say "missiles" But only because I misunderstood your question. The problem with the missiles is the approval process for allowing weapons to be sold to Ukraine. And, of course, the missiles cost... if I remember correctly I saw about $39 million. So the monetary aid is very relevant,.

 

It's quoted on the post you respond to: ""I would like you to do us a favor though."

 

Which can just as easily be an afterthought as a prerequisite. Try as you might, no one can quote where he actually used those words. Only words that the democrats try to interpret as quid pro quo.

 

In the witness testimony, it is said that Giuliani, Sondland, and possibly Volker were, at the direction of the president telling Zelensky that if he wanted an Oval Office meeting with Trump, that he would have to make a public statement about investigating the Bidens and some 2016 conspiracy theory. He didn’t have to actually do any investigating, just make the public statement. They even wrote up a script for him to read.

At the same time, the career diplomats, led by Taylor were trying to assist the Ukrainians in their war against Russia, as well as to forge closer ties to the West. They were being frustrated, going back as far as March, I think it was, from lack of cooperation from the President. It was the hold up of the aid, that was giving them problems. It is the career diplomats and their staff who have to do all the paperwork to get the Javelins sent to the Ukraine. At some point it became obvious to the career diplomats that something was wrong, what the president was doing wasn’t ethical and was counter to US policy, as was established by law.

Even though he didn’t testify, John Bolton is the one who blew the lid off the whole thing. He told everyone to go talk to a lawyer. I wouldn’t doubt it if he was one of those who informed the whistle blower.

Bolton has even made comments that perhaps he has knowledge of Trump pulling troops away from Kurdish areas in Syria, for personal financial gain.

 

Exactly !

 

Makes absolutely no difference. As I said: You are not understanding what this is about. This might help...

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/what-is-all-this-impeachment-about.564668/

 

What it is about is claiming Trump threatened to withhold aid unless the Ukraine did the investigation. The problem is that no one has said that Trump said any such thing.

 

Where did Trump say the aid was dependent on an investigation?

 

Wrong. That's not what it's about.

Again: http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/what-is-all-this-impeachment-about.564668/

 

Giuliani said it. Trump and Mulvaney told everyone to talk to Rudy. Sondland also made such requests, at the direction of the president. It is what led to John Bolton leaving the White House. He didn’t want to get involved with the criminality.

 

You can claim all the obscure reasons you want, but that is still what the hearings are about. However, it now looks like they are considering a new reason for impeaching. Not inviting the Ukrainian PM unless there is an investigation. Does anyone else notice a pattern?

 

Giuliani is not Trump

 

The pattern I'm noticing is that, while Democrats in the House are intent on convincing the American People that Trump is guilty, Republicans in the House are intent on convincing Trump that he's not guilty. A losing strategy from any point of view that you care to look at it.

 

Giuliani: I am acting at the direction of the President.
Trump: Talk to Rudy.

 

But he is still not Giuliani.

 

So your looking for a confession?
No, I don't think you will get that.

 

I am not looking for anything. I am looking at what has been presented so far.

 

Then it should be clear to you that Trump left it up to the boys to hold up the aid. He just applied the pressure in the call.