A Miscarriage of Justice. Part 2.

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by brainglue, Jan 12, 2022.

  1. brainglue

    brainglue Banned

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    This miscarriage of justice, (negroid appeasement) concerns the cop Kim Potter being charged with manslaughter in the shooting death of duante wright. You have probably all heard of and saw the event on TV. The cops had caused duante wright to step outside his car. They then tried to arrest him. He fought with the cops and managed to break free. He then jumped into his car and was ready to drive off. Kim Potter supposedly accidentally shot him with a real gun instead of a taser as she supposedly wanted to do.

    But here is one of the main points with that. She should have shot him with a real gun to begin with. Why? Because a taser wasn't about to stop him. Even being shot he still managed to make it around 100 yards before he crashed.

    Also, being a cop, her job was to protect and serve the public. Not criminals! What if she had just shot him with a taser and he drove off. No doubt soon breaking the wires. What would have happened then. One response would be to pull out their guns and shoot at the fleeing car. Possibly hitting the passenger or anybody in the bullets path. The other thing that would have happened is that they get into a high speed chase with the car. That too would have put the public in danger. Who knows. Maybe they would have done both. And yet, the filthy scum court finds her guilty of manslaughter! That's worse than what might have happened in North Korea.
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you watch video leading up to the incident, they were about to handcuff the suspect, holding him against the side of the car, when all of a sudden the suspect managed to elude their grasp, and get back into the driver's seat of his car. At that point two of officers (one of them was black, by the way) struggled with him, trying to pull him out. You can understand how the officers may have been exasperated.

    After the shooting, you can see the female officer (Kim Potter) freaking out, she had obviously made a mistake. This was totally not intentional.
    And even after being shot, the suspect still drove away.

    Kim Potter obviously made a mistake. If she had actually grabbed the right gun, the taser gun, and shot the suspect with that, it would have been understandable, given the circumstances.

    It seems like manslaughter charges are appropriate, to me. The real question becomes what should a fair prison sentence be. I think they should take it really easy on her, given the circumstances.
    In my opinion, Daunte Wright is at least partially responsible for his own death. He did kind of create the circumstances where it would have been justifiable for the female officer to shoot him with a taser gun. Mistakes like this are inevitably sometimes going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I would bet that farm that neither of you had that much sympathy for the cops that killed black and brown people.
     
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't agree with the manslaughter charge.

    That being said, I do believe LE should be held to a high standard, and I do believe Potter deserves at minimum to be removed from LE (and possibly to serve jail time, though I'm admittedly conflicted on this, but its possible its just because I tend toward more leniency for women than men, which I havn't been able to find a precise definition for, though its certainly some sort of bias...) for having mixed up a tazer with a firearm- no veteren cop should be able to use that as an excuse, even in the confusion of the moment. She needs to be in a different job where her split-second decisions can have less lethal consequences.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are police supposed to do when the person they are trying to arrest is resisting?
    Anyone see a pattern here? Black male suspect with a big body frame and strength, who the police officers cannot easily control.

    Of course harsher measures are going to come out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    brainglue likes this.
  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I would bet the farm that 90% of those black and brown people at least would still be alive if they did not resist arrest like idiots.

    For someone who says they are former law enforcement I'm surprised I have to point out the obvious
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She had just been struggling with the suspect. I don't think you realize how mentally, physically, and emotionally draining being in that type of situation can be.

    Police officers are people, not robots.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  8. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    It's virtually impossible to not differentiate a taser and loaded weapon. They don't weight the same or feel the same. I will concede that she was probably anxious and wasn't thinking clearly, but I believe that rationale was only designed to garner sympathy. And, in fairness, she had no reason to believe that she wouldn't have the backing of her co-workers, supervisors or union representatives. She was born with white privilege and that usually makes most "things" go away.
     
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I know. I could see myself making the same mistake.

    ...thats one of the reasons I'm not a cop. She shouldn't be either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can't be serious. She obviously was not thinking about any of that in that moment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah she's white.... So that must be it...
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're not "conceding that she was probably anxious and wasn't thinking clearly" if you ALSO believe she shot him because she thought she could get away with it because of her white privledge... No one is simultaneously that calculating while they are "anxious and not thinking clearly". Its pick one or the other, not both.

    Personally I think the "white privledge' argument is lacking of any evidence whatsoever, while the "not thinking clearly" argument would just make her a normal human in that scenario. LE should be reserved for exceptional humans...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reality is most humans are not "exceptional". And probably the majority of jobs require "exceptional" people to always do them right without error, which the majority of the population are not.

    Human weakness, human error.
     
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  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And most humans should not be law enforcement. Just like how not everyone gets to be an astronaut. The people who are given authority over the rest of us (and especially the authority to use force against the rest us) should not be average joes (or average josephines). Now, I'm not saying its her fault that her dept let her be a street cop. I think theres a whole rash of problems that afflict our LE in general, and most of them are the fault of 'we the complacent voter'. One of them is that we tend to allow PD's to value the willingness to follow orders and the lack of aptitude for better paying jobs over exceptional officers because we don't want to pay them as much and we don't want them questioning whether they should be issuing equipment violation fines to single mothers who have crappy cars because they already have trouble paying the bills they have, but we don't want the cops to worry about that so we hire the ones who arent likely to think about that sort of stuff. Thats all policy that we the people can change by going to city hall meetings, but we don't. So I'm not blaming cops here, and I'm not blaming Potter for being a cop. But the fact still remains, she clearly doesn't have what it takes to take the proper action when the adrenaline is high and still keep people safe. She needs a different job.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find that kind of laughable. Think about prison guards. It's a difficult job to fill, so they often take whoever they can get.

    Ironically, all these recent court verdicts these days are making a lot of good law enforcement officers leave the field. They are too afraid to remain in that job.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure why you find it laughable, it sounds like you understand the problem quite clearly.

    Agreed. Like I said in my first post- I don't agree with the manslaughter charge. Part of encouraging our law enforcement (the people authorized to use force against us) to be exceptional should be not putting them in prison for honest mistakes. To that effect, I think I'm no longer on the fence about whether Potter should have got jail time for this. She shouldn't have, precisley because it sends to the wrong message to the sort of people that we want replacing her. So congratz, your argument convinced me here :)

    But I still think she shouldn't be a street cop. Maybe a CSI or an evidense clerk or a dispatcher or something where she's not deliberately sent into situations where stress and confusion causes her to shoot instead of taze.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  17. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    That's not accurate.

    First, it doesn't require the person with privilege to contentiously *think* they can get away with <whatever action>. The thought is ingrained the same way we don't stop to think about breathing or sneezing or coughing.

    And, the period between when one makes a mistake and when they have to relay that mistake to someone else (ie. boss, spouse, kids, etc.) is when the brain goes into rationalizing how they reached the point to make that mistake.

    Here's an example unrelated to this cases or involving different races of people.

    Recently, a good friend of mine (with a sex addition) found out that she had a few stds. She was very upset by that news. She came to me for emotional support after getting those diagnosis. She *insisted* that there was absolutely no way, shape of form that she could have any sexually transmitted diseases. She put her hand on a bible and swore on her children and grandchildren that there was absolutely NO way for that to happen.

    However, I'm one of her closest friends and she tells me everything (even BS I don't want to know but will politely listen to). Therefore, over these past 20 months, I know what she's been doing. She has offered sex, oral sex and/or nude massages to any and every guy that looks at her photo on various dating sites. It took me 7 MONTHS to convince her to buy condoms and she said she did (but she didn't). I stopped counting the guys after six months. She doesn't even know most of their names.

    This past Monday, she told me the doctor told her that she didn't need to use the medication he prescribed but she had to come back for another Pap smear (an exam in which a doctor swabs a woman's privates to have it checked in a lab). I know, without any doubt that is a lie. It simply doesn't make sense that he (1) prescribe a medication, and (2) tell her to not bother taking it. In reality (where I live), my best guess is she got ticked off when he said that she can't have sex while using the medication for the prescribed two weeks so she made up that convenient backstory to justify her dumbass decision which is completely ridiculous because I know when she's lying.

    -------------
    So, her situation parallels Potters' situation.

    She could go meet men in all kinds of places for sex, try to force them into a ready-made full blown relationship, get ticked off when they just used her for sex (which is what she advertised) with no questions whatsoever to determine if he was someone she should be having sex with. All of that happened by sheer force of habit.

    But, when she had to face me and tell me what she did, she was either asking me for help (to get out of some crazy nonsense she got herself into) or made up all kinds of scenarios in her head to make sense of what she did.

    And, that is most likely what Potter did. They take the unchangeable event....step away from their adrenaline (or hormones)...and develop some kind of explanation to fill in the holes.

    -------------------------------------
    A few years ago, a neighbor of mine got tired of working and just quit his job. He could no longer afford to pay his car note and he didn't want to deal with it. He took his vehicle to the city, doused it in gasoline and set it on fire. The following day he went to the police station and made a report that his vehicle was stolen. (Yeah, I don't know why people feel compelled to tell me all their secrets either ;-).

    Today, almost four years out, he claims that never happened but "if it did" he didn't do anything wrong because the car dealership has insurance for those kinds of things.

    Again, a parallel with Potter's situation. A mistake/stupid event happens....<holes, holes, holes>...tell somebody and fill in those holes with something that sounds plausible. Human Psychology 101.

    The only reason you believe it lacks evidence is because of your privilege. You would have to be willing to consider the possibility that it's real and pay attention to the things you've always taken for granted. This is the #1 reason that so many people deny that racism even exists. Unless one is discriminated against or works in a field where those kinds of events are part of their job, there is no reason they could or would recognize it.
    As you know, I am a former police officer and I don't identify myself as exceptional. I'm a human being that mistakes just like everyone else. The only reason that I'm able to do what I do in advocating for others is because I had nobody stand with me or for me during the several decades that my family was physically and emotionally abusive to me. I feel pain, sorry, regrets, remorse, fatigue and everything every human being feels. The ONLY difference is (when I was a cop) I pushed myself to strap it on and got out to help make our communities safer for the residents there, and (as a human being) I make a point of causing one person to smile every day.

    The other hesitation I have with that viewpoint is that when we idolize other human beings, we are essentially separating ourselves from them and when that happens there is always a let down somewhere because human are fallible. But, if we can appreciate and admire someone for their contributions to the societies in which they live and/or work, the balance of power stays at the status quo. We can acknowledge their role without trying to push them into being some kind of superhero. A snapshot of that is what we all witnessed on January 6, 2021. Countless people showed up ready and willing to stand behind the man they trusted up to and including harming police officers, breaching the Capitol, defecating and urinating in places not designed for that, attempting to hunt down our seated-VP and anybody that stood in their way. They probably would not have done most or any of that if they were able to recognize that former POTUS Trump is a human being and he was our President. That's it. He's not a god. He's not a saint. He's not an expert on everything (although he thinks he is). He's a human being that ran for office and was our POTUS for 4 years (2.6 years if we deduct the time he spent golfing and running around the country with his super spreader events so he didn't have to take a leadership role for the pandemic).

    That's it. I've never worshipped celebrities or powerful people. I've never treat people with less of anything I have as being inferior. And, the reason is simple. They are human beings and human beings are fallible and I don't want to be pushed into a role of playing superhero for other adults. That is always a losing proposition because, since I'm human, I'm going to make mistakes. They won't be intentional but intent is irrelevant if the hurt party feels the hurt. This is also why I'm not partisan and I talk to people that get on my nerves. I can't understand their point of view if I'm unwilling to listen to it. And we, as members of a society, can't heal any of these disparities and discrepancies if we bunker down in dismissing and invalidating anybody else's truth.

    Do I believe that Potter should have been prosecuted? Yes.

    Do I believe that she made a mistake in the heat of the moment? Yes.
    Do I believe the verdict is the correct one? Yes.

    Do I believe that people who are angry about this verdict will deliberately cause harm to the people they blame? Yes.

    Is it unfortunate? Yes.

    And, where does that leave us? We are now at another crossroad where we can be prepared to hear the painful truth about who and what our society is from everyone's perspective or we can keep bickering over semantics. There is absolutely no reason on this Earth why the answers to these questions should be dependent on either parties' race and if want to continue that pattern, we should be willing to stand up, acknowledge our privilege, admit that we don't give a damn about those biases and tell everybody <whomever we don't like> to "Go to hell."

    Why is it okay for white people to argue against reparations for slavery because that happened before they were ever born but it is acceptable for them to be bigoted against <whomever> and those people, today, experiencing that hatred, weren't alive back then either?
     
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So when Potter shot the guy, like, the instant she pulled the trigger of the firearm, do you think it was because she thought she was pulling the trigger on a tazer, or, do you think its because she thought she could get away with shooting him with a gun while claiming she thought she was tazing him? I don't believe for a second that it can be both.

    I probably won't understand how that paralell's with Potter until you answer the previous question I just asked, so I'll wait and re-assess.

    I believe it lacks evidence because the only evidense there is, is that a white cop shot a black citizen, and the only way that can't ever happen is if there's no white cops or there's no black citizens, and since neither is the case, cops are guaranteed to shoot citizens with some frequency greater than zero, and some of those cops are going to be white and some of those citizens are going to be black. Is there anything on record in Potter's history prior to this incident to suggest she would be more inclined to shoot someone who is black? Because if not, then this is something that is statistically guaranteed to happen with a frequency greater than zero and is not indicative of any sort of motive.

    I'm not elevating police. I'm pointing out that all individuals have some strengths and weaknesses that cannot be conquered, and not all of us can actually be anything we want to be. I work in the sewer handling raw human feces and worse. Its easy for me. I wash my hands before I eat anything (usually) and call it good. I've lost count of how many police, military combat veterens and just regular folks who see me being lowered into their version of hell, thank me for what I do. I'm not a superhero for having been blessed with the iron gut required to wallow comfortably in the worst of humanity's filth any more than a cop is a superhero for their willingness to show up to figure out what the crazy person yelling incoherently to 911 is on about, or an accountant is superhero for sitting in cubicle for 8 hours 5 days a week typing numbers into accel or a fry cook is a superhero for standing over boiling grease trying to take orders from mumbling morons who didn't bother to look at the menu while they were waiting in line ...all much more accurate descriptions of my own personal hell than working all by my wonderful self with tools that I enjoy using in a dark, quiet hole where I can focus in on my craft without people bothering me. In retrospect, I can see where the confusion came from, and its my fault. Cops shouldn't "be exeptional humans", cops should be those humans who are exeptional at being cops. Not everyone can be. Thats what I meant, and so I'm clarifying now. Not everyone has what it takes to be cop, just like how most cops don't have what it takes to work in the sewer, and both Police Depts and Sewer Maintenance companies and all other specialized labor should be replacing those folks who are found to be not very good at their specialized tasks, with people who instead are.

    All I know is I have dropped enough tools into the sewer as a result of someone flushing their toilet on me to know that I could very easily pull a gun instead of a tazer if I was all worked up at the time, and if I happened to do it to a black man instead of a white man, it would not be because I'm racist or because of my white privledge, and I see no reason why its any different for Potter. The only difference that I can see between Potter and I is that I was aware of my limitations under stress before I accidentally shot someone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  19. brainglue

    brainglue Banned

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    I wonder if they train cops how to react in various situations. If so, maybe she knew subconsciously that a certain situation required a certain response. And subconsciously knew that a taser wasn't about to stop him from speeding off. (Which even being shot, he still did) So maybe as a gut instinct, even though it may not have been what she consciously wanted to do, she automatically pulled the right weapon for the situation and used it.
     
  20. brainglue

    brainglue Banned

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    Do you remember how they programmed Robocop to act in Robocop 2? That isn't the way things should be. But I bet BLM would love it.
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When the suspect misbehaves, and the police have to struggle with the suspect, especially a subject with a big body size and strength, it can be real easy for mistakes to be made.
    Oftentimes the officers are physically and mentally tired out from the struggle, are frustrated and exasperated, and at that point they are not thinking the sharpest.

    In these cases, normal regular physical force isn't always enough to control or restrain the suspect.

    That's when something like a stun gun, a chokehold, or even a baton comes out.
    In the case where police believe the suspect is delirious under the influence of drugs, they may attempt to administer a sedative (another controversial issue).
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  22. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we are training to deal with various simulated situations.

    For example, when I was in the police academy, we had...

    To climb 3 story ladders and carry a dummy weighing 200 lbs. back down to ground level. (Cops usually arrive before EMT or Fire trucks).
    Know CPR and practice on a dummy several times.
    Run with weighted items (to replicate carrying our weapons and other tools on the belt for a whole shift).
    Practice driving through cones and other obstacles without knocking them down.
    Psychological testing to identify strong biases for or against others. (Many cadets failed and were terminated).
    Moving through a building with no electricity to locate and rescue someone trapped somewhere.

    However, as with nurses and doctors, there is a big difference in having the textbook training and actually being in the field facing those situations. That's why doctors have to complete residency programs (under more experienced doctors) and nurses have to do continuing education and even teachers are required to augment their education to retain their credentials.
    I'm going to assume that you think her subconscious brain told her to read his actions as "danger" because of his race. Is that what you are trying to convey here?

    Notwithstanding your completely <censoring myself> view, yes, biases are very much a part of police work and while the public is lead to believe that law enforcement exists to "serve and protect" them, the unspoken part is they "serve and protect" one another.

    In a harrowing encounter such as the one Potter faced, her brain probably shut down (due to the adrenal release during "fight or flight") and she went on auto-pilot. She wasn't trying to run through information she learned in the academy or from other officers. She responded from the instinctual need for self-preservation. It is probably true that she felt more threatened because the suspect was black, but when the dust settled, there was no pathway to state that. By the time this incident hit the news, her Chief of Police and department attorneys had already coached her on what to say, when to say it and to whom to say it. The taser idea was probably borne within those conversations with her superiors.
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or had a big muscular body size and was acting irrationally, uncooperatively and impossible to control.

    Could this have more to do with how the suspect was acting than his skin color?


    Another thing to consider, dark black is a color that is a little bit harder to see, in a physical struggle. Zebras, for example have stripes to confuse predators and make it more difficult for predators to be able to pick out an individual zebra from the pack, or keep an eye on which direction the zebra is darting.
    This might play some tiny role.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  24. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Hi MP, I wanted to wait until things settled down so I could focus on your post and respond thoroughly. My answers are below. Please let me know if you have any questions or need me to clarify something.
    It's hard to describe to someone that has never been in that situation. I'll do my best but let me if I need to try again.

    You know the feeling of having water get up your nose if you hit the pool/lake/river the wrong way? For a few seconds, your body takes over and you aren't consciously or conscientiously trying to clear your sinuses and lungs. It just happens. The few seconds between being deeply asleep and being awakened abruptly is the same way. There is a *moment in time* that you aren't "fully" connected with your brain controlling your mind, it's controlling your body.

    So, in a life or death situation, we aren't necessarily aware of anything around us or taking in information. Our adrenal glands react to prepare us to "fight or flight". Our natural instinct is self-preservation. This is the reason that suicidal people and people that have DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate) orders sometimes react in a way contrary to their desire to just die. It isn't that they've changed their minds in the final few minutes. It's just that our brains (hardwired for survival) is in control for those few seconds or minutes.

    The "fight or flight" signals are not any different for emergency personnel. All police officers, paramedics, fire prevention, etc.. still have it. The only difference is we experience more than the average person in having to function in an emergency. That's our job. I have very fast reflexes. I didn't learn that as a cop. I learned it as a kid because it was essential that I could sense and somewhat predict when one of my parents was about to physically attack me. That has served me well when confronting other life or death situations as a LEO or concerned citizen. People think that I am some kind of hero because I have intervened (as a civilian) in combative situations to protect a stranger and I have put my own life at risk to save another person's life. It's not that I'm reckless or brave. It's that, in that moment, I was the only one that wasn't freaking out. I know how to separate my emotions (including fear) to be *present* in a crisis. And, the full truth is because of my traumatic childhood, I always know that I'm a survivor. I've confronted people bigger than me, faster than me and could easily beat me down. The only advantage I had is that I wasn't afraid of any of those outcomes and that's because I was standing in defense of someone that had even a lesser chance of survival if I didn't.

    With that in mind, every time we suit up and strap on, we leave our home hoping we make it back. Every day of my life as a child, I prayed for God to my dad home. Some of his buddies weren't so fortunate. And, although we are aware of the risks, many of us went into law enforcement for exactly the reason in the previous paragraph. We wanted to help the people in our communities and stand in defense of them because whatever the *threat* is they often have less of chance at survival. Sure, some cops become jaded and go rouge (I've been up by cops just about every month for 5 years straight and I don't hate cops. I hate THOSE cops, but not all cops ;-) which is my opinion on Chauvin. He abused his power to rationalize whatever drama was between him and Floyd.

    Please NOTE: I do NOT believe that Potter had crossed over from "service and protection" to "use deadly force on somebody I don't like while my buddies watch and do nothing and laugh about it and I know they will cover my butt".

    It's impossible for any of us to know what Potter was thinking in that "moment" but I'd be shocked it ever came out that she was thinking anything and we essentially have that questioned answered because a loaded weapon (almost any of them) does NOT feel the same way a taser does. A loaded weapon is heavier, usually has a smaller handle and the grips are different. Only someone is lying or they were not "fully present" in that moment because there is no mistaking them otherwise. This is where you and I are butting heads on this verdict.

    Maybe this will help explain my point better.

    Have you ever been in a situation in which, upon later reflection, you realize you didn't handle it well? You replay it in your head and think of many alternate ways that you could have handled it better. Again, albeit smaller, that is part of our "fight" or "flight" instincts (and it doesn't have to be life of death situation). It is just something that you later thought you didn't behave or say or not. That exact same thing happens to everyone which is why you will hear police officers and lawyers and judges say eyewitness testimony is practically useless. It's because anytime between Event A (LEO shot a suspect) until Event Z (standing for trial) the brain tries to fill in all the holes. It's not necessarily intentionally deceptive (but sometimes it is). It's just being mindful and trying to understand what happened.

    Something like this happened to me about two years ago. A now former friend was in my apartment just hanging out and I felt tired so I left him on the couch watching tv. The next conscious moment I had was being awakened by an RN in the Emergency Department. I have tried like hell to fill in that hole and I can't pull up any memories of it. This was the 2nd time that he was the only other person here and I ended up in the ED. The only reason I suspected him is because this was the second time that happened but the first time there were other people here. I didn't connect it to him directly at that time. I also know the motive. He stole some money from my safe. He needed me "out of it" so I didn't hear what he was doing searching my place. I can't prove that he drugged me because I didn't even think about it at the time they may have been able to take blood for toxicology reports. I was honestly just "out of it" and to this day I don't know what actually transpired. And, the brain fights very, very hard to fill in those blanks.

    So, for her, I would lean toward giving her the benefit of the doubt relative to motive, BUT, lean the other way relative to her trial and he's why. It is inconsistent to argue that she should not have to stand trial for this death while we are okay with other people that make mistakes being tried in our court system. We can't have it both ways and we shouldn't have it both ways.

    For examples,

    A doctor operates on the wrong body part.
    A nurse gives a medication that her patient is allergic to and the patient dies.
    A woman afraid of losing her job is rushing to work and hits another vehicle.
    A guy spaces out and forgets that his dog is in the back seat (with the windows rolled up in Summer and the dog dies).
    A person is playing with a loaded weapon and it goes off and hurts someone.
    A person is having a glass of wine and cigarette at the end of a long day and falls asleep setting his house on fire.
    A landlord miscalculated scheduling the snow plow and his tenant falls on the snow and ice and ends up in the hospital.

    Humans are fallible. We make mistakes all the time. We get pulled in a million directions and those of us with kids get pulled in a trillion directions. That's the gig. Adulting is hard work and we better be damn sure we're up to the task we were hired to do. When I was in Corporate America I always told my staff members to not bring their bad attitude to work. If you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, don't bother coming in because every time one of them answered my phone or went to their assigned location and acted like a dumbass, it was a reflection on me. You either do your job (I don't micromanage) or you submit your resignation. Orange Jesus doesn't understand his concept. Nobody conspired against him to steal an election. He was fired for being a dumbass in leading us through the pandemic. But, like Potter, he knew the responsibilities going in and he signed the employment contract just like she did with the understanding that termination and possibly incarceration (depending on if a crime was committed in the course of doing their job) were possible outcomes.

    When a person chooses an occupation in which they will be faced with situations like this, the implication is they are ready to be put to the test. That's why departments have drills all the time. But, being a straight "A" student and getting through all that can only prepare us to a point. A police officers' job is to make the right decision EVEN when he or she is scared out of their mind.

    And, it's not just that field. The testing and training to be an air traffic controller is brutal and all it takes is a few feet of miscalculation to have a crisis on our hands. The people in these first responders positions are paid rather well to make sure they don't drop the ball when the time comes. It may not sound fair or humane or decent but we are put to the test over and over and over to minimize the risk that something like this could happen. Many bigoted people want to focus on why the victim deserved to be shot or she shouldn't be blamed because he was a low-life, all <blah, blah, blah> but the *question of LAW" defines what is a crime and what is not.

    In that moment, where she is trying to take control of the situation...when her adrenal glands were going haywire, when her brain couldn't remember a damn thing she learned in the police academy...her race and his race probably never crossed her mind. My father was a Chicago cop and I'm a former cop and both of us, off duty, many, many times, intervened when a person was beating the hell out of cop trying to restrain them. In those moments, the only thing on my mind was helping another officer. I didn't care what the suspect looked like or may have done. I didn't give a damn if his momma showed in court and cried talking about her "precious baby being a good boy." or other dumb stuff people say about their crazy kids. The ONLY thought in my head was protecting someone else that wears the badge. And, if she ever does interviews or writes a book, I would feel confident placing a bet that protecting herself and any civilians in the area is the ONLY thought Potter had.

    I need a break. I'll be back, man ;-)
     
  25. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Cool. Let me know.
    Well, for starters, you aren't starting with the right premise.

    This isn't a case of a "white cop" shot a "black citizen." It's a cop shot an unarmed citizen. The races don't matter (they do, but justice is supposed to be blind so the only reason you and many others make that distinction is to "appeal to emotion" a little bit. And, if we read and listen and watch, we will see this in action constantly. Many people have defended Rittenhouse and Babbitt. But, when there is a mix of races on either side of that question, many people don't care what the white person did or didn't do. It's very frustrating to constantly listen to these people justify that double-standard AND claim that racism doesn't exist. That is an asinine assertion.

    And, beyond that, if we want to break down those walls and look at the "facts" (race is not one of them unless you're talking about some type of hate crime) we have to be willing to apply the law fairly. One of the biggest issues in our country right now is that Trump is able to command and steer hundreds of thousands of people into action to rip down our Constitution. He shrugged his shoulders and say he takes no responsibility at all for his pandemic response. He has defrauded countless people and, yet, his supporters are totally okay with all of it. Think about that. Would you hire somebody with sketchy lawsuits against them? Somebody that has filed bankruptcies more times that most of have traveled outside the U.S.? I have absolutely NO doubts that any and all of his criminal activities and fake shell companies would be prosecutable if he was anybody else on this planet. That's scary. A person will no morals, values, decency, integrity, kindness, empathy or loyalty can propel people to commit crimes in his favor.

    You see, that's not a "white guy" turned his back on his country and didn't lead us through COVID.
    It's not a "white guy" only cares about other white people and everybody else gets ignored.
    It's not a "white guy" only cares about the people that voted for him. (this one is just stupid because he turn his back on Capitol rioters).

    None of that matters. The argument is our seated-POTUS didn't do his job. That's it. The whole shebang.

    Yet, people want to force it to be about race but the standard is white people don't live in the same country as non-white people. A perfect example is what we all watched happen at the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

    There is absolutely no way that could or would happen if the people doing that were any other race except white. Non-white people scaling walls, breaking windows and doors, beating police officers, disobeying an order from law enforcement, defecating and urinating everywhere, stealing government property, breaking into offices, randomly walking around the recently vacated chambers, etc.. Yes, Babbitt's death was tragic, but if we are going to remain honest with one another, we have to acknowledge that if we can justify cops killing black and brown people and summarily conclude they all deserved it in some way, that should apply to her as well.

    I can't think of his name at the moment but one of the Senators confirmed this bias. In what was probably an effort to dial back the intensity of what transpired, he stated that he wasn't afraid of any of the rioters but he would have been had they been BLM. And, if you take that statement and overlay it on any encounter between different races you will clearly recognize the imbalance. Please know, that I truly understand how painful it is to recognize and I understand why some white people prefer to deny it versus admit it. It's painful and most people don't like pain. It's hard as hell being inside my brain knowing what I know. I have very severe PTSD and I will have it for the rest of my life because of what I've seen.
    It sounds like you took my statements as an insult and I apologize for that. That was not my intent.

    My point is not that we, as a society, put people on pedestals and feel let down when they show themselves to be human. We do it with our religious leaders, doctors, police officers, paramedics, and now, that COVID is in town, some of us have elevated front line workers like grocery store clerks and people handing out disinfectant wipes and cleaning our carts (that most previously took for granted).

    So, it's not this specific officer or police officers in general or <whatever> I'm cautioning against. I'm saying that the risk in assuming that a person is something other than human because of the job they have creates an environment for feeling let down when they act as fallible humans (which is unavoidable since they are human) and falsely removes the need for us to remain vigilante regardless of someone's occupation. Think about it. Every single pedophile that has ever had a case reported in the media was a "pillar in his or her community".

    Every.
    Single.
    One.

    I'll be back ;-) (I didn't do that in the "Terminator's" voice though ;-)
     

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