A two part question for those considering Socialism

You have a right to self-defense. But you don't have a right to other people protecting you. In our current system, every American even if he doesn't pay a dime in taxes have a right to defense by our military. The same goes for schools, roads, fire department, police, and social security.

 

Calling it a house is like calling an apartment having 400 sq feet a house. The soviets doled out what we call apartments. A car might amount to junk. If the Soviets claimed it, forget using it.

 

If we paid only to the Feds, and that tax was 10 percent few of us would mind at all.

 

Satisfaction of life is a good measure but there is a lot more than money that influences it and there is a huge cultural aspect. I'd also include measures such as median hourly earnings, CPI adjusted. We also need to look at levels of CPI adjusted median wage growth and economic growth in general to see where the country is going in the future. Europeans have a better quality of life but they still trail us in economic output and vibrancy. Maybe we can learn from what they have done right and what they have done wrong.

 

So, get rid of the government all together? So basically fire president Trump?

 

State and local take up 10% alone. I don't see an easy way we can get down to 10%.

 

Government should be kept as small as possible, and taxes as low as possible.

Part 1): Can you name just one thing in your home that is not there as a result of capitalism?

You need tools to make tables and chairs. Tools come with an enormous hierarchy of capitalist industry and business attached, so no, they are not examples of something in your home that is not there as a result of capitalism.

Part 2): Can you name just one modern, full time, wage-paying job that you could have today, if rich capitalists never existed?

A teacher requires clothes, shoes, a teacher’s certificate, an education from an educational facility, all of which were made by capitalist companies. For instance, the building he did his teacher training in was made using technology provided by rich capitalists. The clothes were made and sold by capitalists. The certificate was made by capitalists. His car, his phone, his dental work, his shoes, all are made by capitalists. Importantly, the school he would teach in would not exist without capitalists who invented all the technology in it. So again, no, this is not an example of a modern, full time, wage-paying job that you could have today, if rich capitalists never existed.

Socialism is the State running the means of production, distribution, and exchange instead of private business. It cannot work, and never has worked, as it is an impossibility, much like religions that promise heaven and eternal life. The damage is done while trying to make such a system work. Essentially it is just legalized theft. Looters taking money out of the pockets of businessmen, with permission from the State.

That’s a myth created by socialists. Capitalism has been here since the first caveman exchanged his spear for a pair of shoes.

 

State and local can be double that. And the original purpose of the Feds was to provide a bit of help to the states. But each citizen pay the same amount.

 

There is very little difference. It's almost identical to comparing different stages of cancer.

• Stage 1 usually means that a cancer is relatively small and contained within the organ it started in.
• Stage 2 usually means that the tumour is larger than in stage 1, but the cancer has not started to spread into the surrounding tissues. ...
• Stage 3 usually means the cancer is larger.

Socialism starts just like a small cancer and then steadily grows if not removed. Eventually it will become full blown communism if left to grow.

 

State and local power arguments have several flaws:
1. The biggest changes and reforms came from the federal government not states.
2. People will simply move to the state that charges the lowest tax and the best services for them. This will push us into a system where there is barely any state and local spending at all eventually.
3. This will result in 50 sets of entire systems and regulations which will be very difficult for businesses to navigate.

 

Funny.

When do you think Norway, Sweden, France, Germany and Canada will become communists?

 

Part 1): Can you name just one thing in your home that is not there as a result of capitalism?

Part 2): Can you name just one modern, full time, wage-paying job that you could have today, if rich capitalists never existed?

On the contrary, they are questions; they make no statements of any kind. Either you can name one thing in your home that is not there as a result of capitalism, or you can’t. Either you can name just one modern, full time, wage-paying job that you could have today, if rich capitalists never existed, or you can’t. It’s as simple as that.

Let’s call it what it is; Socialism.

That’s like saying cancer works with a healthy body healthily, which is nonsense.

Yes, in the same way the Mafia allows shopkeepers they extort to make enough, while giving a big cut to the mob. Most don’t become billionaires though, because being held back by the mob restricts growth.

You mean under Socialism.

Using money extorted from business, which makes businesses close down, move, sack employees and stop innovating. Brilliant. The “times of need” wouldn’t happen if Socialists weren’t plundering business to begin with.

 

Socialism is legalized theft. It isn't responsible for any of the products in your home. Thieves don't create televisions. They steal them.

 

1. Does not mean such changes and reforms are good. Take the prohibition laws once spread nationally as an example.
2. People will move to the states with the best to offer. Happens today.
3. CA does this now. CA creates laws that other states end up obeying. Were I in those states, i would be furious.

 

As any country takes socialism all the way to the very end, near the edge of the cliff, Trumps will come out of the woods to stop them. In our society Trumps exist, but most of them would hate having to be a POTUS or Prime Minister, despised by half the population. Most of them hate politicians and the corruption that goes on. They run their companies and try to make as much as they can, to leave to their children, and wouldn’t dream of throwing all that away to enter the grubby world of politics.

However…

When things get bad enough they will reconsider. If things get so bad that their beloved country is going to become a Socialist State, they consider rolling up their sleeves and taking action. It would be done for their family’s future; not for any personal gain. They would discuss this with their wives, sons, daughters and friends. They would think about it for some years. All that time they would hope someone else would come forward.

When those countries get close to becoming pure Socialist States, their own Trumps will emerge in the nick of time. They will cut the head off the Socialist dragons, which will scream and rage stentoriously as they are taken down.

As for whether they will try or not, thieves are always greedy for more. They begin extorting and always want to increase the amount. As they get used to their free lunches, they want bigger and better lunches, and then dinner and breakfast too, and the restaurant to go with it, and so on, until a Trump comes along to lop their head off.

 

Indeed.

The purpose of government is to secure our inherent rights.

all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed​

A SOCIALISM SO BIG, IT’S NATIONAL: Elizabeth Warren’s Batty Plan to Nationalize . . . Everything.

You fool no one.

 

Irrelevant. You need many capitalist products to do gardening, unless you intend to go into your back yard naked and work with bare hands in the dirt, carrying water in your hands from a local creek. You rely on capitalism 100% to do your gardening.

 

As Ayn Rand explained, you need some government. It should be as small as possible.

 

I'm Canadian.

My country is ranked by the UN as the second best country to live in on this planet.

The first is Norway.

Both countries are considered "socialists" by people like you.

When are we going to fall into the precipice and a Trump will "save" us?

 

Electricity
​

Landscaping

 

Do you know this country was born without rich capitalists?
Your brainwashing has gone deep.

Not even thru 1st page and already this thread failed.
Not worth any more time.

 

Me too.

The United Nations are made up of many socialists and communists. If they approve of the way you’re going politically they’ll give you a gold star.

That simply means they’re more left-winged than you.

Neither Canada nor Norway are Socialist States. They are capitalist economies with a bunch of socialist doing their best to make stealing from business legal, and bring about a Socialist State. They are doing a fine job, but eventually a Trump-like businessman will come forth to end their dream. Well, let’s hope so anyway.

When you reach the same stage the U.S. was in. If that’s now, then very soon. Remember though, you have less Trumps than the U.S. They are rarer there precisely because the government already penalize businessmen more. It may take a while as a result, but one good thing is the U.S. Trump has provided inspiration. Others will have a model to copy.

 

Your electricity is either supplied by a power company or using a generator. The equipment is made by private companies. Capitalism.

Once again, unless you intend to do the landscaping naked, with your bare hands, using no clothes, boots, hats, gloves, tools or equipment, capitalism is very much a part of the process.

 

Not deep enough it seems. Without capitalists there would be no ships to sail to the new country in. Christopher Columbus would have to stay at home and make pizzas. The Pilgrims would have to stay at home and smoke their pipes.

It'd be hard if you think capitalism had nothing to do with your electricity.

It does takes time to understand capitalism and socialism.

 

I don't think you have a clue what socialism is.
The thread is proving it.

Why not define your obvious made up definition so there's some potential common ground.