Abortion and Foetal abnormality

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Bowerbird, Sep 7, 2021.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2008...bnormalities-forgotten-people-abortion-debate

    Now the surprise here is that this is not actually talking about America - the article is from the medical Journal of Australia (yes abortion IS a global issue).

    The vast majority of late term terminations are for foetal abnormality incompatible with life.

    Four women discuss thier experience with abortion for foetal abnormality

    https://www.thecut.com/2019/02/abortion-after-20-weeks-womens-stories.html
     
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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I'm concerned about is borderline abnormalities. When the abnormality is not that bad, or could rather easily be surgically repaired.

    Some women might be using the "abnormality" as just an excuse to get the abortion she would otherwise still be likely to want to have, while others may be doing it out of sheer convenience, just because it's easier to start over than deal with a moderate problem.

    I agree in the case of severe abnormalities, the government should not get involved.
    In fact, if you want to go down that line of reasoning, one might even be able to argue that government should be able to force a woman to abort in the case of severe abnormality, and that it would be cruel for her to allow the pregnancy to continue.
    I'm just pointing this out because it can be a slippery slope, once we start arguing there are reasons why she should get the abortion.


    In rare cases they might say the unborn baby has no chance of survival, when sometimes it does.
    The Boy With No Brain

    Just writing the fetus off as an obvious loss is going to result in the sacrifice of some who could have lived normal or reasonably normal lives.

    Also sometimes these tests are not entirely completely accurate, especially earlier in the pregnancy, which further complicates things.
    Would you terminate if they say the fetus has a 90% probability of having a fatal condition, but there is a 10% chance it might be completely normal?

    Saying that it's a "difficult choice" so the choice should always be left up to mother is just mentally lazy thinking.

    Yes, in some cases it should. Not in all types of cases.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Wow! What a poor opinion of women!

    as for your “boy with no brain “ there is a vast difference between microcephalic and anencephaly but I agree there are many who would abort a severe microcephalic because who wants to bring a child into this world who will never speak, never interact with others and requires full time care feeding and cleaning? It is not that hard when the child is small but when they grow older thr care requirements become more and more burdensome - and if something happens to the parents - what then?
     
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  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You claim the decision should "be made between a woman and her doctor".
    Well, in some of the cases the doctor is simply in a much better position to be able to know what should be done than the woman.

    Of course we've got to do something to make sure these doctors are non-biased, otherwise certain doctors (one bad apple out of the barrel) might develop a certain reputation and then women will just go to that doctor knowing that he's going to tell her what she wants to hear.

    Maybe require her to get an opinion from a random doctor which she did not select.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  5. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I couldn't figure out what foetal was. Perhaps it's a relative of convefe....
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Because many medical words have been inherited from the original Greek the Greek spellings are preferred
     
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Australian couple aborted at 28 weeks because fetus had deformed left hand

    One example of a woman getting a late-term abortion that involved "fetal anomaly" but was still done for very questionable reasons.

    A New South Wales couple who fought to have their pregnancy terminated at 28 weeks after discovering the foetus had a physical abnormality.
    Mother-to-be Cindy was 23 weeks pregnant when the first indication there might be a problem with the foetus emerged. What followed was a two-month long nightmare that started with the couple facing bureaucratic hospital delays that pushed back further scans for two weeks.

    They say they are still haunted by the silence that filled the ultrasound room, when, more than six months pregnant, the scan confirmed their fears: their child was suffering from a deformity, one that would cripple its left hand.
    Frank told Fairfax Media when the problem, called 'ectrodactyly', or cleft hand, was diagnosed, a week passed before Cindy was told it was she would not be allowed a termination.

    "I was really, really depressed," Cindy said. "I couldn't think about anything else but the baby, and I felt I had been abandoned."

    After two weeks where Frank watched Cindy's depression grow deeper, Westmead referred her to Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, where her pregnancy was terminated at 28 weeks.

    By that stage, if the foetus had been born prematurely there is every chance doctors would have kept it alive.

    Ainsley Newson, a senior lecturer in bioethics at the University of Sydney, said late-term abortion was a fraught area of ethics and law.
    "Distinguishing between serious and more minor conditions identified during pregnancy is difficult," she said. "There is no clinical or ethical agreement, and different people will respond to a diagnosis in different ways."
    LifeSite has a very judgmental article about this woman's decision:
    Couple aborted their baby at 28 weeks because of a deformed left hand - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)

     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    ONE case

    ONE
    upload_2021-9-15_14-5-40.jpeg
    All I can say is that considering abortion is technically illegal in NSW then for an abortion to have been done at 28 weeks there must have been other abnormalities as well and often that is multiple skeletal malformations

    But there is no way anyone could know the extent without access to medical records
     
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  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL, right from LIEsite news....the proven anti-women's rights sight spewing anti- women's rights crap for a long time..
     
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  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is unbelievable garbage.

    The decision is not yours or the government's to make.

    And, the idea that it's "mentally lazy" to have the woman control her own body is just plain monumentally unacceptable.
     
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  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you trying to imply that if a baby has that on one hand - ONE - that it's okay to euthanize that baby?
    That its life might as well be over and that it is not worth living?

    And you think it is just fine for the woman to make that decision for her child.

    How about we analyze the woman's body for any malformations or deformities, and if we find one, we can be "merciful" to her and give her the benefit of euthanasia too?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that having a government write up a definition of how deformed a baby must or exactly how threatened the woman's health must be before allowing abortion is just plain not acceptable.

    Plus, this still ignores rape and incest, which do have serious health consequences for the woman.

    Your last sentence demonstrates you aren't even trying to understand the issue.
     
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  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We could have review by a bioethics board at a hospital.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's fine for the woman to make that decision , it's her body...no one else's...

    Why are you so against killing a ZEF which isn't a person and has no rights but always so eager to kill and harm born women who are persons with rights???
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) Comprised of who ? You? :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Removing the woman from this decision is already a government enforced failure of bioethics.
     
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  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one said she needs to be removed from the decision.
    Don't pro-choicers say the decision should be between her and her doctor?
    I just want to make sure the doctor actually enters into the equation.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, you want to assure some COMMITTEE decides for the doctor AND for the woman.

    Who do you think Texas will put on this committee???

    Justice Barett is the poster child for the raw partisan politics of the SCOTUS, achieving her seat in a way that even Republicans STRONGLY stated was abject partisanship, and now on the Texas law case she helps to prevent even just argument to be presented.

    And, now you want to pretend that this "ethics panel" would involve ethics or the woman's view or the doctor's view at a time when not even the SCOTUS will allow argument to be presented???
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NO, the decision is hers alone...


    Why would you care? It's HER decision....yes, like everyone else she can get information from a doctor but the decision is HERS....
     
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  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lucky her. Her mother loved her so would not abort her.
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Was she? The sort of disability we are talking of most commonly the child ends in an institution where it is fed bathed and cleaned and is not even aware of that much

    Is that lucky?
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The reason we advocate for legalisation is to ensure the doctor IS part of the equation. Make it illegal and the abortion is likely to be done by “deadeye Dick” the local organise crime shill
     
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  23. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So your notion is to get rid of the trash babies?
     
  24. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How can this society be so primitive as to rely on abortion?
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    How can this society be so primitive as to demand by law and carried out by vigilantism that a woman must take the serious risk of carrying a fetus to term when it is know to be incapable of life?
     
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