ALERT: The Anonymous Group - Anarchist Criminals

If the tram is quicker for an 8 mile journey to a city centre, it is likely to be quicker for a 15 mile journey. It takes me 10 minutes on the tram. Cars go very slowly in rush hour and parking is a nightmare. Hundreds of people get the tram. If they didnt there would be hundreds more cars on the road and so the congestion would be even worse and cars would go even slower.

they expect to have 200 million cars by 2020. They have congestion over several miles on roads leading to Beijing.

global warming is fact

if they get millions of cars, of course it will make a difference. China will have more cars than America by 2030.

China's proven oil reserves are about half of what the US has, ie not much.

Would they? How do you know?

Not just oil, everything, and it includes global warming and other pollution - the earth's ability to recover from man's activity. It takes the planet 18 months to recover from 1 year of human activity.

why are you looking at just a few months? Oil and food have become more expensive over recent years.

If you own a car manufacturing company yo do not get charged directly for global warming in any way. There is no penalty for producing gas guzzlers.

we need land to grow food. Millions are hungry, remember?

Too little, too late.

You need to read up on this as you havent the feintest idea. Aquifers millions of years old have been mined. They dont get replaced. Water gets polluted. Global warming will make things worse. Many countries like the US import vast amounts of embedded water or 'virtual' water, a term I dont agree with, it is real water. This is the water used to grow imported food.

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I'm sure I've posted this before. Soil is degraded and washed away. And there are more people.

 

why are you asking? I assume so, yes. All capitalist countries have taxes, obviously.

 

So, does the majority dictate truth?

 

But taxes violate private property rights!

 

before US intervention

after

You cant see any difference? You say womens rights are just as good now as in the 1970s in Afghanistan?
Tell you what, why dont you go get yourself a nice burqa then?

where in your link does it say Iran was not capitalist? Where did it say there was a reason to overthrow parliament? Are you gonna try and justify it?

"Mohammad Mosaddegh or Mosaddeq (Persian: محمد مصدق, IPA: [mohæmˈmæd(-e) mosædˈdeɣ] ( listen)*), also Mossadegh, Mossadeq, Mosadeck, or Musaddiq (16 June 1882 – 5 March 1967), was the democratically elected[1][2][3] Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953 when he was overthrown in a coup d'état orchestrated by the British MI5 and the United States Central Intelligence Agency."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

"Jack Straw has confessed his nation's role in the crime of 1953 which overthrew a "perfectly democratic prime minister" (his words).

http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/jack-straw/

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw

 

So what? You live in a place where you have a metro. If you live in States or Islands where there are no trains then you need a car. Or else you can walk.

People in China either way, ride a bike or take the train. Walking to places is simply too far. Trains don't take you everywhere you want to go. Bikes are fine but you can't ride your bike in the winter.

They need automobiles.

Hardly. They have plenty of roads and they are constantly building more roads. The problem is that they have no cars.

Yeah right. >_>

Good for them.

China is not only drilling near China. They are also drilling near Cuba and Venezuela. And it doesn't matter if the proven oil reserves are not much because the proven reserves are not the measure of the future supply of oil.

Because I know. The trains don't travel to a huge portion of the towns and villages in the country.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It doesn't take a long time to "recover" from human activity. Forest are constantly being replanted, crops are constantly being grow again.

Funny thing how your picture only goes to 2008 and my indexes has recent information.

Not the mention your chart is not measuring the price of those goods correctly. Average price of wheat for 2011 was $297 /mt. Average price of Grain was $214.9 /mt and the average price for Rice. Where that depends on the type of Rice. Prices have only been increasing due to inflation but still price were still lower than they were a year or two ago.

And there shouldn't be.

Use corn as a fuel and even the animals will go hungry.

Hardly. Unless you are an Al Gore type who thinks we have 10 years left on this planet. I think according to his prediction he made months ago, we have about 5 or 6 years left.

The US doesn't it import it's water. The US has water manufacturers in Maine. I'm pretty sure they have another bottle water manufacturer but it's name escapes me. The US doesn't use Aquifers either. Not all of them anyway. But all of them have over 20 Trillion gallons of water estimated in the most notable ones.

Either way, like 75 percent of the water the US gets are from rivers, lakes, springs, wells, etc. Only 25 percent comes form the Water supply network which is recycled water.

And the US does not import it's food. I think you have the US confused with the UK.

I don't see a lot of Red so I guess there is no need to care about this image.

 

Yes those workers who built it got employed. Building a massive private yacht. Now imagine the government took $1.2 billion from the person it was built for and used it to employ people to build wind turbines, tsunmai warning systems, public transport or whatever.

Do you see my point? Those workers got jobs, but all it did was drain vital resources for the amusement of one massive ********.

 

are you having a laugh?

well I dont have time to register to look that up, of course it is mostly not a market economy. But it is trying to open up to foreign capitalist investment.
eg
http://www.economist.com/node/18836790

If they call NK socialist they are morons or liars.

They let you in because you dont encourage strikes and the overthrow of the dictatorship, because you are on the side of the bosses not the workers.

I'm not interested. NK has never been socialist and ultimately it will try to be capitalist.

Ah, so now we go from the lowest poverty rate in the world to the 48th, and no mention of healthcare. Ok a video, summarise what is said about Cuba claiming to have the best healthcare in the world.

I'm getting bored of repeating the same basic stuff. Socialism has to be democratic and internationalist. Stalinist USSR was neither, and not only that, Stalin killed all the socialists and tried to sabotage every socialist revolution around the world. When is this going to sink into your skull? Socialism is far more democratic than capitalism, it involves mass participation in decision making.

what are you trying to say?

I have explained to you many times now, Stalin tried to do the opposite. He wanted Eastern Europe, China, North Korean, Vietnam etc to be capitalist. And they were never socialist. He 'picked them up' largely against his own wishes. Only the Baltic Satates were initially annexed, partly because they were poart of the Russian Empire and partly because they were full of Nazi collaborators perhaps, and I guess Stalin deported those people. I have already explained to you, I think, that Stalin backed the capitalist KMT in China as opposed to the CCP. Name any country and I will explain how it ended up Stalinist AGAINST STALIN'S WISHES.

Ever been shot in Siberia? get real. You just play with words half the time. Think about the meaning for a change.

Trotsky got an ice pick through his skull, his son was poisoned. Thousands were shot. The Stalinists attacked the revolutionaries in Spain, hunted them down. And you talk about currencies!

 

I'm not having a laugh. I am laughing. You seem to think that The Economist magazine isn't left leaning. Well even Kenyes opposed Marx so anything to the right of you would be considered the extreme right.

That's a nice piece of rubble there...

No one in the entire world thinks that North Korea is not socialist. And I can compare that with at least two democracy indices (One American & One British).

I can also get a former Marxist Economist to concur with me as well.

China actually has a good thing going. The only think that is keeping them down still is their Government. China is much better off than they were since the 1970s. If you think they want to experience a some more Socialism you're mistaken.

As for being on the side of workers? I'm a capitalist. I don't have to be on anyone's side. That's the beauty of the free market. It allows people who hate one another, who don't speak the same language, who'd fight one another if they had the chance to cooperate economically. You don't know the religion, race or politics of the person who provides you your goods or services. And nor do you care. You cooperate with other people by bringing them the goods and services that they want and they give you goods and services that you want.

Since North Korea is less free democratically than China is, I have no doubt in my mind that they will fail.

I don't remember actually providing information that they are ranked 48th with it comes to their poverty rate. I don't even know where you got that number from, since I cannot find their statistics on poverty anywhere online.

Communist tend to keep secrets on how bad their economic management is.

What a load of crock. By that loose definition, America is VERY socialist. It's probably the best Socialist country on Earth. Everyone seems to be (*)(*)(*)(*)ing miserable and anger at the state of the economy so yeah it must be socialist.

Capitalism is not mean to be democratic as it is not a form of governance. The same thing applies to Socialism. It's not impossible for a Socialist government to be a Republic or a dictatorship since the means are all the same: Public ownership of goods.

I'm not trying to say anything. You seem to think that because these regimes killed fellow comrades that they weren't really Socialist. To you they are the exception, not the rule.

I really don't care what Stalin did or what nations he annexed and turned commie. It doesn't really change much so go ahead and explain if it makes you feel better.

Currency War is actually very serious. And it's very ironic because the objective of a currency war is to lose. It devalues currencies, makes cost of living increases, makes exports cheaper while making imports more expensive.

Yeah currency wars are not fun.

 

You DO realize there is a difference between opinion and fact??

 

They would spend a quarter million per job (like they with Lightsquared) and end up with a failed product and industry.

 

Truth usually means correspondence of an idea to the world outside thought. But theft is an idea itself. Theft is not a physical reality outside of human thought, it is a concept devised by human thought, defined by it, and its definition is not fixed but changes with human thought.

In the old days you could own a slave and if someone liberated him or her you might call that theft. Others would say slavery is theft. Some say property is theft, or capitalism is theft. The definition of theft is part of ethics and this is determined by the capitalists in capitalism and by the working class in socialism.

Who cares? Capitalists societies need taxes, that is reality. Communism will abolish private property, period.

 

or you could build light rail/tram networks. That is the socialist view.

No. A billion more cars is not an answer, it will cripple planet earth. And Gaia will take his revenge.

I just told you they will soon have more cars than the USA. More environmental destruction, more resources used.

Global warming is fact. Man being the main cause is pretty much proven, 95% certain at least. Take it from me, I know what I'm on about.

Oil is finite and we have found all the easy stuff and used most of it.

so they should be building trains, cars are not the answer.

"Today humanity uses the equivalent of 1.5 planets to provide the resources we use and absorb our waste. This means it now takes the Earth one year and six months to regenerate what we use in a year.

Moderate UN scenarios suggest that if current population and consumption trends continue, by the 2030s, we will need the equivalent of two Earths to support us. And of course, we only have one. "

http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/index.php/GFN/page/world_footprint/

Part of it is the amount of CO2 we are emitting, ie more than the planet can take up. But its more than just carbon footprint, it is water and arable land, and other resources.

Because they shot up before that. What planet do you live on? There were food riots in various countries over rising prices.

Of course there should, if you care about the planet being inhabitable in a few generations.

I think he said a few years to change CO2 emissions before thing get really bad with feedbacks etc. We will have to wait and see. When you are an old woman and I am dead, and the planet is in crisis as people realise AGW is fact and feedbacks are kicking in, remember me saying I told you so, in advance.

I said the UK didnt I? I meant to anyway, cant be arsed checking. No I dont think the US imports much embedded water. WFT are you on about manufacturing water? It is not manufactured. I was talking about the water used to grow export crops in countries which are short of water. It's not right.

Most of the USA is orange.

Here is the US government..

"Land degradation, a decline in land quality caused by human activities, has been a major global issue during the 20th century and will remain high on the international agenda in the 21st century."

http://soils.usda.gov/use/worldsoils/papers/land-degradation-overview.html

74% of North America's land is degraded (1994 estimate).

 

left leaning my arse. It's one of the main voices of the capitalist class, along with the FT. Any 'leftness' is down to wanting what's best for capitalism, ie not provoking big strike waves or trashing the economy.

No socialist thinks NK is socialist. Nobody with a functioning brain thinks NK is socialist in fact.

wtf are you on about?

go on then

Yeah, great, no human rights, perfect for capitalism to invest.

More socialism? What does that mean? They have never experienced any.

I dont know if the Chinese want socialism or capitalism. In the past the unrest in Eastern Europe and the USSR was no pro-capitalist.

bull(*)(*)(*)(*). There are two classes, capitalist and workers, with opposing interests. The employers want workers to get paid as little as possible and the workers disagree.

ffs this was your own link!

You only have Russia from 1917 to 1924 really to go on, as this was the only time communists were in power and attempting socialism, and they were very open and honest, so as usual you are talking out of your arse.

No, you also need the planned (publicly owned) economy bit.

Let us go back to basics...

"What will be the course of this revolution?

Above all, it will establish a democratic constitution"

"Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?

No."

"What will this new social order have to be like?

Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.

It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association. "

Engels, Principles of Communism

Wrong see above, see below...

"We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy."

Communist Manifesto

"Proletarian democracy is a million times more democratic than any bourgeois democracy; Soviet power is a million times more democratic than the most democratic bourgeois republic." Lenin, 1918, Bourgeois And Proletarian Democracy
"

You need to understand this. Democracy in socialism isnt a luxury or a preference like in capitalism, it's one of the essential ingredients. It's how a planned economy would have to work. If you just have a small number of bureaucrats making the decisions like in the USSR, you encounter all sorts of problems. It can modernise the economy but eventually it grinds to a halt. You have to have the mass of the people involved, not only to motivate them but to get the right decisions made quickly. Also, if there is an elite you get into all sorts of problems with secrecy and arse covering.

No, its not that they werent socialist because they killed fellow comrades. Why would socialists kill fellow socialists?

They killed socialists because they were dictatorships of an elite anti-socialist bureaucracy. How can you have socialism run by an elite? That is stupid. It makes no sense.

You have fallen for the same old con used by Stalin and Truman.

he didnt turn any nations commie because he was an anti-communist. He tried to make sure they all went capitalist but he failed. As I say, it can be proved for any country. For example the French parliament thanked the Stalinists for helping maintain French rule in Vietnam! These Stalinists were in De Gaulle's capitalist government as ministers.

Are they as not fun as getting shot in Siberia?

 

That's the point. There are capitalist who do things like that. You have your 'left leaning' capitalist economist called 'Keynesians' and then you have your right leaning economist called 'Austrians.'

When you understand the different, you'll understand that 'The Economist' is not my type of magazine. They have more in common with them in terms of central planning than I ever will.

Who cares what socialist thinks? They don't know anything about economics. North Korea is just not socialist the way they want it to be because the minute they set foot into North Korea they'll get arrested and tortured.

I'm merely saying that I can compare two different democracy indices from two different countries and it'll tell you that North Korea is a 'Socialist Republic.'

Thomas Sowell. Winner of the National Humanities Medal, the Bradley Prize and served in the Military. He was a Marxist during his early years. Then he realized how much of failure it was and became a widely know Free Market economist. He's written very compelling books such as Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy, Applied Economics: Thinking Beyond Stage One, Intellectuals In Society and his autobiography Marxism: Philosophy and Economics. He points out that

They're much better now they they were under that Socialist hell.

They still do have Socialism and plenty of it. Government still tells them what to do when to do it. Everything it still publicly owned. Only when they have adopted a market economy when the country was actually able to prosper.

Everyone is a capitalist in capitalism, whether you know it or not. The premise is that everyone provides goods, services and production for everyone else without actually knowing it.

That's not the potion I highlighted. I highlighted only the potion which shows that Cuba provides their own statistics on poverty rates.

.

They've never been open or honest. Not since the revolution up until the fall of the wall.

Yep, the United States is definitely socialist. We have central planning up the wazoo.

Okay, so because it China, Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea doesn't have a Democracy means that it was never really Socialist to begin with? That's a load of (*)(*)(*)(*). The reason is because when you use loose definitions and guidelines like that you can pretty much make anything a Socialist country. Just as long as the economy has central planning.

They're people. People kill people. And Stalin killed people who disagreed with him. That's no different from any dictator who has ever lived on his Earth for the past thousand years.

It doesn't have to make sense and I don't pay attention to the politics of anything. I only pay attention to the economics of things. That's really all I care about.

I don't know what kind of example is that. Vietnam is pretty socialist too.

No, because the winner gets a devalued dollar which can make goods and services of that country expensive which can lead to tons of people starving. The loser gets stuck with inflation.

 

these so-called 'left leaning' capitalists are like that because they want their system to survive and to work. It's called realism.

North Korea is not at all socialist and until you understand that you will be just another ignorant right winger spouting the same tired old rhetoric.

in what specific way does a democracy index tell you that NK is socialist? Bear in mind that socialism is highly democratic by definition. And that NK is not at all socialist.

He is an idiot

Really? How come they are beefing up the state security apparatus then? You are clueless, despite having been there. There is massive unrest that could explode at any time. There were 180,000 'mass incidents' in 2010, ie strikes, demonstrations etc, despite mostly being banned and so on. This is an increase on 127,000 in 2008, and 90,000 in 2006. Social unrest is on the rise. The number of ‘major mass incidents’ involving thousands and requiring interventions by higher levels of government is also on the rise. These used to be mainly a rural thing but have now spread to the cities.

Socialism has never existed anywhere, let alone in China, and no matter how many times you repeat this nonsense that will not change.

Yes the government owns half the economy.

Don't be stupid, get a dictionary. An employee is not an employer.

you completely failed to back up your assertions.

You say this, but you are clueless on this.

Lenin 1922:

Lenin's correspondence and writings of this period. when illness was increasingly preventing him from intervene in the struggle; clearly indicate his alarm at the encroachment of the Soviet bureaucracy, the insolent parvenus in every corner of the state apparatus. Thus, in a letter to Sheinman in February, 1922:

"At present the State Bank is a bureaucratic power game. There is the truth for you, if you want to hear not the sweet communist-official lies (with which everyone feeds you as a high mandarin), but the truth. And if you do not want to look at this truth with open eyes, through all the communist lying, you are a man who has perished in the prime of life in a swamp of official lying. Now that is an unpleasant truth, but it is the truth." (Works, vol. 36, page 567)

Lenin at the 11th Congress:

"If we take Moscow," he said, "with its 4,700 Communists in responsible positions, and if we take the huge bureaucratic machine, that gigantic heap, we must ask: who is directing whom? I doubt very much whether it can be truthfully said that the Communists are directing that heap. To tell the truth, they are not directing, they are being directed." (Works, vol. 33, page 28

Lenin:

"It is said that a united state apparatus was needed. Where did that assurance come from? Did it not come from the same Russian apparatus, which, as I pointed out in one of the preceding sections of my diary, we took over from Tsarism and slightly anointed with Soviet oil?

"There is no doubt that that measure should have been delayed until we could say, that we vouched for our apparatus as our own. But now, we must, in all conscience, admit the contrary; the state apparatus we call ours is, in fact, still quite alien to us; it is a bourgeois and Tsarist hotchpotch and there has been no possibility of getting rid of it in the past five years without the help of other countries and because we have been "busy" most of the time with military engagements and the fight against famine.

"It is quite natural that in such circumstances the 'freedom to secede from the union' by which we justify ourselves will be a mere scrap of paper, unable to defend the non-Russians from the onslaught of that really Russian man, the Great-Russian chauvinist, in substance a rascal and a tyrant, such as the typical Russian bureaucrat is. There is no doubt that the infinitesimal percentage of Soviet and sovietised workers will drown in that tide of chauvinistic Great-Russian riff-raff like a fly in milk." (Works, vol. 36, page 605)

Find me one example where Lenin was dishonest.

Yes, the USA is socialist, North Korea is socialist, Nazi Germany was socialist, Europe is socialist, Mars is socialist and ET was a socialist. So were the dinosaurs. Birds are socialist and so is the air. In fact all matter is socialist. Everything is socialist. The definition of socialism is now something which exists.

Wrong. Stop talking out of your arse and read up on these subjects. It's all here..

http://www.marxists.org/

Lenin:

"But we have not finished building even the foundations of socialist economy and the hostile power of moribund capitalism can still deprive us of that. We must clearly appreciate this and frankly admit it; for there is nothing more dangerous than illusions (and vertigo, particularly at high altitudes). And there is absolutely nothing terrible, nothing that should give legitimate grounds for the slightest despondency, in admitting this bitter truth; we have always urged and reiterated the elementary truth of Marxism - that the joint efforts of the workers of several advanced countries are needed for the victory of socialism." (Works, vol. 33, page 206

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/feb/x01.htm)

Lenin:

"We know that we cannot establish a socialist order now—God grant that it may be established in our country in our children’s time, or perhaps in our grandchildren’s time."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/nov/04.htm

Lenin 1919:

"Destruction of state power is the aim set by all Socialists, including Marx above all. Genuine democracy, i.e., Liberty and equality, is unrealizable unless this aim is achieved. But it’s practical achievement as possible only through Soviet, or proletarian, democracy, for by enlisting the mass organizations of the working people in constant and unfailing participation in the administration of the state, it immediately begins to prepare the complete withering away of any state."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/mar/comintern.htm

 

All dictators are the same. Everything is the same. Everyone kills people who disagree with them, even if they are on the same side. Yes, Stalin was just a normal person doing the normal political genocide that anyone does from time to time.



Trotsky, after his death







All the original revolutionaries were murdered by Stalin except Alexandra Kollantai who was in Sweden, and a couple who were friends with Stalin.

You wont understand economics if you dont understand politics.

Vietam is not socialist and never has been. No country ever has. Are you not listening? I have told you a hundred times.

The French government contained CP ministers at the time, in fact the leader of the French CP, Maurice Thorez, was vice Premier.


“French conservative politicians rose in the National Assembly during a crucial appropriations debate from March 14-18, 1947, to thank their own Communist colleagues and the Soviet Union for leaving France to fight its war in Indochina without outside disturbance.”
Bernard Fall, The Two Vietnams, p308

 

History
Stalin’s Terror of 1937-1938

27/11/2009

Political Genocide in the USSR - Review of new book by Russian historian Vadim Z. Rogovin (Mehring Books)

Peter Taaffe, Socialist Party (CWI England and Wales)

"In fact, Stalinism was not an ‘outgrowth’ of Bolshevism but its negation. This is clearly underlined by the chapter ‘Mass Operations’, describing how the Great Purge was initiated at the CPSU’s Politburo meeting of 2 July 1937.
Scale of repression

The scale of the repressions, the arbitrary selection of victims and how their punishment was carried out is both nauseating and overwhelming. A first directive in 1937 proposed arresting more than a quarter of million people; around 72,000 were to be convicted with a devised plan “to shoot 10,000 people in the camps”. One bureaucrat described how this was carried out: “In the course of one evening we would go through up to 500 cases, and we tried people at the rate of several per minute, sentencing some to be shot, and others to various prison terms… We weren’t able to even read the summons, let alone look at the material in the dossiers”!! "


"The purge trials of the 1930s were a ‘one-sided civil war’, the aim of which was to secure the bureaucratic counter-revolution personified by Stalin and his circle against the last remnants of the Bolshevik party and the connection that they still had with the Russian revolution itself."

http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/3794

 

So think about this, what have these things all got in common...

1. The Moscow Trials (frameups) and purges in Russia in 1936-7

2. In France in 1936 the Communist Party leader betrays a general strike, a revolutionary situation, saying "we must know how to end a strike"

3. In Spain 1937-7 the Stalinists attack the anarchists and POUM. Stalinist secret police were sent from Russia to crush the revolution in Spain. They were then killed when they got back to Moscow.

4. In December 1936, a mutiny erupted in the KMT. Chang Hsueh-liang, a KMT general in charge of 170,000 soldiers, took Chiang Kai-shek prisoner. The demands of the mutiny were similar to those of the CCP - for land reform and a more aggressive struggle against imperialism.

But Chiang was saved by the intervention of the CCP. Stalin begged Chang to spare Chiang’s life. Stalin, who regarded Chiang Kai-shek as the only viable leader of China, threatened to break with the CCP if they did not insist on his release. Leading CCP member Chou En-lai was to play a key role in securing Chiang’s release, in return for new negotiations between the CCP and KMT, a condition which Chiang naturally accepted. "

 

The 'socialist view' has not always been about what is efficient. Most countries are simply too small or don't have the topography install one. Also most countries don't have money. This is why you don't see subways on islands which are either tiny or don't have the topography for it.

'Gaia' is a female, supposedly. And how will the Chinese already cripple the planet already more? They already pollute far more than any First World country ever could. They don't have an EPA.

2020 or 2030 is not soon. They've also said that they've planned on upgrading their military by 2015. It's still pretty lacking. South Korea could squash them if they wanted.

Global Warming is nothing more than an environmentalist religion. Environmentalist are the biggest anti-human terrorist on earth. Most of what they do doesn't even create cleaner air or cleaner water.

Is that why we still only have 1.3 Trillion Barrels of oil remaining?

Cars are the answer. Cars provide mobile freedom.


"Today humanity uses the equivalent of 1.5 planets to provide the resources we use and absorb our waste. This means it now takes the Earth one year and six months to regenerate what we use in a year.

Wow, these predictions are so dumb. First of all, CO2 is not even a pollutant. And again the 'consumption' tread is just more exponential growth nonsense.

Because all of those countries have price controls. In the Free Market, supply and demand would cause prices to rise where goods are in short supply and fall where they are abundant, providing incentives to move things from regions where they are in full supply to places where goods are in short supply.

But where prices are fixed by law, no such goods get transported to those places and no such incentives occur. All prices are interrelated. They send signals to businesses to either keep doing what they are doing or to stop what they are doing.

The planet has been around for thousands of years and it'll be around for thousand of more years. We have at least 1000 years of oil left on this planet. And I still have yet for you to name me a single resource which has actually disappeared from this planet entirely.

Ohh, so we have to wait until we are all dead in order to experience the Environmental Apocalypse. What a load of crap. He might as well have said that the end of the world was coming in the year 3000. Even if the Apocalypse was in 2100, it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. We'd all be dead, including Al Gore. Better to be a mystery than to be wrong >_>

The US doesn't import food because it doesn't been to import food or water. They're not that lazy. And I mean manufactured water as in bottled water. It has too come from some manufacturer. The US isn't short of water either. I don't know how much water cost in the UK but it's never been north of a dollar here. Unless you go to some place where they are swimming in money like Beverly Hills or Rodeo Drive.

So the land that has been degraded can never grow wheat or corn ever again? That's absurd.

 

I am talking about cities, and I doubt the cost is more than thousands of people buying cars, and the cost of congestion which I think is £20 billion in the UK per year.

If the cost is too high, buses can be used which are very cheap.

Britain is an island and we have trams. There are trams in Hong Kong and Japan.

Efficiency is the whole point of socialism. Socialism would be many times more efficient than the anarchy of capitalism.

Gaia in this context is the fine balance the earth has achieved in terms of timespans that are short geologically but long in human terms. The Chinese will cripple the planet if they all try to live like Americans in a capitalist system, because the planet cannot cope.

Global warming would increase dramatically.

But stop trying to make them out to be the bad guys. The worst CO2 emitters are Americans.

Of course it's soon. And I dunno what you are on about re the military.

This is stupid stuff you are saying here, completely stupid. Sheer, unadulterated utter (*)(*)(*)(*)ing stupidity. I'm not gonna get into it here, read the thread about the Nobel physicist if you wanna discuss global warming.

Thats enough to last humanity 40 years. Assuming we can get every last drop out. Assuming no population growth. Assuming billions of Chinese and Indians dont want to move into a modern lifestyle.

I wrote a song about how stupid cars are in 1981. 30 years later you still dont get it. The planet could not sustain everyone having a car. Global warming is real. Denying it is stupid.

Why spend your time typing insane nonsense? CO2 is a greenhouse gas. This has been know for over 100 years. Without greenhouse gases the planet would be 33°C colder.

world food prices do go up because of shortages, that's one of the problems, but also they go up because of speculation.

thousands of years! Lol! 4,500,000,000,000, or 4. 5 billion years, give or take.

million or billions ffs

support

Intelligence among right wingers?

When you are old and the planet is almost uninhabitable, bear in mind that you were part of the problem, part of the cause. You were warned.

The US imports about $50 billion a year in food. Why are you talking about bottled water? It is not relevant to the debate.

"The government projects that at least 36 states will face water shortages within five years..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21494919/ns/us_news-environment/t/crisis-feared-us-water-supplies-dry/

How easy do you think it is for degraded land to recover?

Actually I just noticed a mistake on something i said earlier. I think I said 74% of America's land is degraded. I was just looking at the article again and it says 74% of land in dry areas in America.

It is estimated that the total annual cost of erosion from agriculture in the USA is about US$44 billion per year, about US$247 per ha of cropland and pasture

 

were the vast majority of the Tea Partiers wearing Colonial costumes or a few isolated individuals?

see what I did there?

 

anarchyAbsence of any form of political authority.
Political disorder and confusion.
Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/anarchy

sure sounds like chaos.

chaos
A condition or place of great disorder or confusion

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/?s=chaos

 

because of vast oil production and a much smaller land mass and population?

of course I would debate on what you consider 'higher quality of life'...I would rather be poor in America than rich in some Eurotrash Nazi appeasing country like Norway..

 

they all firmly believe that in the end 'their' group will come out on top..