(I decided to move my posts from the 'uncivil' and godless thread here and edit them a bit. I am in a hurry and not a writer so I'll just jot down a few things and I'll see how it goes) --------- Judeo-Christian means from the Middle East so Islam fits then.(knowing the Abraham connection) Middle Eastern culture is big on obedience and not too happy with freedom of thought or personal choices this is reflected in their religious beliefs Where is the American connection? Was America founded as a place for people to obey or else? Keep your creativity back at home we don't want it here? Conservative politicians and media figures appear to be inspired by mullahs, also - similarly intolerant, excessive on punishment, fans of conspiracy theories, not able to compromise, the desire to control the populations personal choices, a hatred for feminists and so on. (The shoe fits and I should include the people that work for them) yet Islam is supposedly the enemy in their eyes Also since Jews don't believe in hell or Satan, wouldn't that make the claims of a nation being based on Judeo-Christian values and that its becoming godless in conflict as Jews don't believe the separation is possible? Isn't that kind of criticism a Christian-Muslim thing? Any real Jews in the house? As the Christian right have been able to make politics a religious issue like it already is in the Middle East we're becoming more like that area of the world every day, which is a far more conservative and god fearing of the world than it is here so if we keep going in this direction we know what this country is going to become, which probably includes invasion. Its like these conservatives want the only difference between American culture and the Middle East to be that we have more value for the freedom of 'corporate individuals' than family. you'd think that would be in conflict with Judeo-Christian-Islamic values but I guess some people would rather live in conflict. Why anyone would think that we were founded on Judeo-Christian values and leave out Islam when they are more similar to Christian than Jewish on so many levels? I am wondering why anyone would support changing the west into a Middle Eastern society that also loves wealth more than family. I doubt we can survive it.
so I did some research on the notion of godless: http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation7.html IN SHORT... For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, is not monotheism. It is, however, the same duality found in other pagan faiths. The Bible speaks of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in Gd's court. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, Gd, to do anything. - - - Updated - - - concerning hell http://www.chacha.com/question/do-jews-believe-in-hell The Jewish reference to Hell is 'Gehinnom' or 'She'ol.' According to most Jewish sources, the punishment or purification is limited to twelve months, after which the soul ascends to Gan Eden or is destroyed, if that person was utterly wicked.
I've been wondering what that updated mark on posts was about. That was supposed to be a second post that I was going to edit. anyway some comparisons: http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but it is not clear whether Muslims remain in Hell forever. Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally. A Muslim author on IslamOnline.net explains it this way: "Ultimately, God will remove from Hell those believers whose sins were not forgiven nor atoned for by good deeds in their lifetimes, and they will then enter Paradise. The remaining inhabitants of Hell will stay there eternally." (Islam Online) Other Muslim commentators, noting that Allah can rescue people from hell as he chooses, and that he is merciful With Christians I guess there are some different thoughts http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/afterlife.htm
on Judgment day http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm Muslims: On the Last Day, resurrected humans and jinn will be judged by Allah according to their deeds. One's eternal destination depends on balance of good to bad deeds in life. They are either granted admission to Paradise, where they will enjoy spiritual and physical pleasures forever, or condemned to Hell to suffer spiritual and physical torment for eternity.Those who fall, weighted by their bad deeds, will remain in Hell forever. The Qur'an specifies two exceptions to this general rule: Warriors who die fighting in the cause of God are ushered immediately to God's presence (2:159 and 3:169); and "Enemies of Islam" are sentenced immediately to Hell upon death. Christians: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130415005405AAJSZ2M There is a judgment coming for all mankind, but those who put their trust in Jesus Christ to save them are judged already, because Jesus Christ has borne their judgment, so that by faith they might be justified before God: " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son." Jews: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080619030335AAlA2Qa Just to clarify one thing - Jews do have a judgement day. It's Yom Kippur, and it happens every year. The notion of judgment for our actions isn't foreign to Jews; it's hugely important. But we believe that this world is the only one we know about, and our actions in this world matter. So every year we are called to account, atone for our sins, and G-d judges us ("like sheep before the shepherd" - going over all our individual flaws and merits), and decides what will happen to us in the next year.
I dont know abt Quran - originally in classical Arabic - there are too many different translations/interpretation - I would like to guess how much is lost/distorted/misinterpreted in translation B) Yom Kipppur - atonement etc. sounds similar to Catholic confessions .- The slate is wiped clean. Few weeks later , you've forgotten all abt it and go find some other sins to commit. A) - For God so loved the world that he drowned every S O B who would'nt listen to him,- including those who've never heard of him. God hated the world so much that he sent his only son so that whoever does not believe in him will perish and be denied eternal life.-(God's Ex-wife) Jesus was god's son while Mary was married to Josef ? Hmmm. ==== Dorkay , its all in the mind - its whatever you believe it to be . Cant be proven or disproven either way. (wink) ..
I suppose so, but Yom Kippur doesnt sound much like Muslim and Christian ideas of a judgment day. I had wanted to add that I posted the links I did because judgment and punishment are significant factors in what people are either drawn to in a religion or repelled. Its also good at motivating people to go to war. Currently there's a connection being made to Judaism and Christianity by the right wing that is not only inaccurate but also being used to promote a military alliance against Islamic countries. But if I'm wrong and they aren't trying to do any of that, they wouldn't have any problem including Islam in their America equals Judeo-Christian values tag. there's no reason not to. Islam is too similar to demonize I am curious what conservatives think are the important differences between Middle Eastern and the American society (current and or what that they want to create)
If you post two comments within a short time span the software will incorporate them together with the second one being the update even if it is in response to another comment.
I am curious what conservatives think are the important differences between Middle Eastern and the American society current and or what that they want to create well actually, I'm not curious at all, well beyond that moment. mostly, I muse on the internet. I was also trying to get myself back to where I started in this thread, the angle, you know the angle. but I am far more curious about the history, similarities and differences of these three religions right now and that doesnt appear to be well suited for this forum so I will take it elsewhere.
