American Gun myth no 1. Guns for home/self defence

Are we still argueing over the fact that more guns are used self-defense than crime every year?

Or that the "you more likely to kill a friend or family member than an intruder" myth that fails to exclude the deaths of those involved in illegal activity at the time of death?

Maybe the fact that countries, despite having strict gun control, can have higher suicide rates than the US?

The opponents arguements rest on the misuse of 0.00047% of all the firearms in the US.

 

It is factual to note that the evidence finds that, as handgun ownership increases, suicide rates also increase (ceteris paribus). Its also interesting that some of the available literature, focusing on ways of quantifying the self-defence argument, finds that the handgun owner is more likely to use their guns against their family than in their defence. That does require further analysis, given the obvious problems in data retrieval and potential issues with robustness (which has also made the data for self-defence incidences look decidedly ropey)

 

Guns = higher suicide rates. Thats why countries with strict gun control can have higher suicide rates than the US. LOL

Guns = dead family members. But we don't need to exclude the deaths of criminals involved in criminal acts from that figure.

 

It is interesting to see that those arguing for taking guns out of the hands of citizens because they cannot be trusted with them says a lot about what they think of themselves.

 

You'd have a point if suicide can only be explained through gun prevalence. No one has suggested that. Once we isolate gun effects the international evidence confirms a positive relationship between gun prevalence and suicide rates. e.g. Ajdacic-Gross et al. (2006, Changing Times: A Longitudinal Analysis of International Firearm Suicide Data, American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 96, pp. 1752-1755) who: “investigated changes in the proportion of firearm suicides in Western countries since the 1980s and the relation of these changes to the change in the proportion of households owning firearms. Several countries had an obvious decline in firearm suicides: Norway, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Multilevel modeling of longitudinal data confirmed the effect of the proportion of households owning firearms. Legislation and regulatory measures reducing the availability of firearms in private households can distinctly strengthen the prevention of firearm suicides.”

 

Which is why countries with strict gun control can have higher suicide rates than the US. LOL

Yes, I am dismissing your nonsense.

 

I see you moved the goal posts to "firearms suicides" instead of simply suicides.

The US may have more firearms related suicides, however that is a moot point in light of other gun control heavy countries that may have higher suicide rates than the US.

 

You only advertise your innoncence of the evidence here. The analysis into suicide finds that guns do not have 'perfect substitutes' (I.e. As gun prevalence increases suicides occur that, ceteris paribus, wouldn't occur otherwise).

I note that you are following your standard anti-intellectual approach: ignore the evidence in order to maintain an unsupported opinion

 

Do those countries have lower number of hours of daylight - because there is a better correlation between light levels and depression than between gun ownership and depression

 

Read your post again. I think you just proved his point.

 

You tell me, I posted those suicide stats more than once already.

 

Yet, there are countries with strict gun control that have higher suicide rates than the US.

Are you intellectually or physically incapable of understanding this very simple point?

Be explicit.

 

Of course the "intellectual" thing to do is to rely on "peer reviewed papers" and not think for one's self.

 

I haven't an issues with studies, however the repeated and predictable failure to address a very simple question is irritating.

Claim: There is a correlation between firearms and suicide.
Rebuttal: Countries X, Y, and Z have higher suicide rates despite strict gun control laws.

 

I haven't an issues with studies, however the repeated and predictable failure to address a very simple question is irritating.

Claim: There is a correlation between firearms and suicide.
Rebuttal: Countries X, Y, and Z have higher suicide rates despite strict gun control laws.

 

You still struggling with the basics? There are multiple factors that impact on suicide. We know that gun prevalence is found to significantly impact on suicide rates. We also know that gun control, where it has significantly impacted on that gun prevalence, has been found to significantly reduce suicide rates.

You are completely reliant on attempt at spurious conclusion. The expected result when anti-intellectualism is adopted.

 

Source?

 

Yet, countries with strict gun control can have higher suicide rates than the US.

Are you intellectually incapable of understanding this?

 

There are numerous factors impacting on suicide rates. I'll repeat: There are numerous factors impacting on suicide rates. I'll repeat: There are numerous factors impacting on suicide rates.

To make any evaluation of gun prevalence on suicide, gun effects have to be isolated. I'll repeat: To make any evaluation of gun prevalence on suicide, gun effects have to be isolated. I'll repeat: To make any evaluation of gun prevalence on suicide, gun effects have to be isolated.

When gun effects are isolated we find that gun prevalence significantly increases suicide. I'll repeat: When gun effects are isolated we find that gun prevalence significantly increases suicide. I'l repeat: When gun effects are isolated we find that gun prevalence significantly increases suicide.

Worked it out yet? Its called logic

 

source?

 

http://www.ask.com/wiki/List_of_coun...y_suicide_rate
Of course, there's always a small disclamer with WHO .........
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...cide_rates/en/
In 2009, the US had a higher suicide rate than Australia. And I'd bet a dime that the numbers in Haiti have changed a bit.
ya'll can compare country by country to see who and what......

 

You need to refer to suicide analysis that directly tests gun effects; e.g. Ajdacic-Gross et al. (2006, Changing Times: A Longitudinal Analysis of International Firearm Suicide Data, American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 96, pp. 1752-1755): This uses a random coefficients model to demonstrate how the proportion of household's owning firearms impacts on country suicide trends. Not surprisingly, firearm ownership has significant effects (reflecting impulse decisions- often coupled with alcohol abuse- and differences in lethality rates.

 

how about posting the study and highlighting the specific portion you are referring to?

 

Yet, countries with strict gun control can have higher suicide rates than the US.

 

If you were in a sub-forum called 'alcohol abuse' or 'daylight hours' you might be able to spin a tale (although I seriously doubt it). We are in a sub-forum called 'gun control' and the empirical evidence shows that gun prevalence has a significant impact on suicide (and gun control can significantly reduce suicide rates). You've lost, but you're going for a 'repetition in spurious conclusion' as a form of tantrum