American soldiers should disobey and refuse to fight in case of battles

Even when you're drafted you know you must go, fight, and kill as many enemy as possible. The enemy is trying to do the same to you. Killing and winning is everything. Nothing else matters.

 

I agree, but am reminded of the lines from the Charge of the Light Brigade: "Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do and die". That is the sort of thinking that is conditioned by the military process. Any soldier is expendable, as long as the mission is accomplished.

 

Considering the number of homeless and suicided veterans, allow me to doubt there is a lot of "remorse".
Considering my country, the politicians are the same than everywhere : narcissic sociopath with barely any sense of morale.

 

A non-sequitur, many of those homeless are homeless due to their own actions and nothing to do with "remorse" we take great strides both publicly and privately for veterans here. We also have what is called "stolen valor" here with persons pretending to be vets and begging on the streets.

 

and once again, of course - 'think twice' is just a saying, not sure if you familiar with it. But if leaders had to lead the battle on the front with their own families you belive they would make the decisions so easily? Very easy to send strangers to war or their deaths - not so easy when its yourself and yours

 

Due to their actions or due to the PTSD they got during their service. Such compassion for them in your words.

 

A true leader makes no such distinctions and an inane argument that the President should lead the front line into battle.

 

Like not seeking treatment that is offered or assistance that is offered or engaging in crime or drug abuse. It's hard to have compassion for people who do not take advantage of all we offer.

 

Yes, it was an inane argument, but then again when was the last time the USA didn't have an inane leader - did you watch his latest speech? the man sniffed, splutter and slurred the entire time he was at his podium. All I was trying to point out was when troubles affect you personally it takes more consideration before you act - is common sense and all of us in our lives weigh up pros and cons of decisions daily no?

 

Drug abuse is quite logical after a ptsd.

 

Everybody cannot be helped, and not everybody wants to be helped but the VA could try harder and spend a lot more.

Same with a really bad hurricane. People will be dying from the stress for more than ten years after.

Some adapt, some don't, some can't. Once you give up you're a goner.

 

And not. And we offer lots of counselling and treatment for those who choose to avail themselves to it.

 

I don't want the Commander in Chief hampered in his decision to use military force by personal concern for his own family. And the fact is even if their son or daughter were in the military they would not be allowed to serve on the frontline subject to capture.

 

fair enough - so these people are above and beyond any danger that their plans will put regular folk in? How do you get that pass out? I guess let the peons die for the rich homes? I don't understand

 

It's about if they were captured they could be used for propaganda purposes and actually put our leader in a position of having them bent over with a sword aimed at their neck unless the Presidents order our troops withdrawn.

I say that as a father whose two sons are Marines. Both with multiple deployments. One who due to sustained injuries was medically retired the other still active duty as Major at Central Command and travels to the region regularly.

 

of course... but that could happen to any troop no? I just wonder what makes 1 life worth more than another?

 

And I hope your son on duty stays safe and your injured son keeps well

 

PROPAGANDA, to say that an unknown to the world enlisted man would have the same propaganda value as the child of the Preisdent is of course absurd.

 

Its a volunteer military, they know what they are signing up for. The penalties are fair and just for desertion. You might have point if there was a draft, but not for a volunteers. What you propose is more dangerous to our servicemen than any fantasy war you are dreaming up...

 

I know the French get a bad rap that for the most part isn't justified. Look no further than Napoleon to see what the French are capable of.

 

I don't like Napoleon. For me one of the primary richness of a country is its own inhabitant, and for that I neither appreciate the first republic or Napoleon, they have send so many good people to death for their fantasies of glory. I don't admire people like Napoleon which have build their glory on the suffering of their soldiers.

I must admit I don't manage to understand your way of thinking. I hope your son still in duty will stay safe, and that other son will manage to be happy despite his injuries.

I admire the army for their hability to be disciplined and their devotion. I have a complete disgust for politicians however.
I'm disgusted by the way french and german soldiers were treated during WW1, the way french soldiers were treated during the french revolution, napoleonic wars, the way their lives were used during colonization war. I am disgusted also the way american soldiers were treated during all the wars since 1945 or during the american civil war. WW2 is maybe for me one of the only justificated war.

Most wars seems to me to be caused by the lie of some evil politicians that care more of their personnal interests that the interest of their country. I can see the interest of a war when it's about defending your territory.
I don't trust any government, that's why war seems so dramatic to me. It's to sacrifice your most devoted citizens for the most selfish.

I hope both of your sons will get a long, accomplished life.

 

It was the same excuse used to justify the My Lai massacre, so nothing really changes.

 

Why do they need to refuse to fight BEFORE they're asked to?

 

Hello, I already developped that a little bit in the rest of the thread. There was a lot of interesting (and opposed) points brought by many members since.