an inherent problem in democracy

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by kazenatsu, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Suppose there are two main political Parties that alternate back and forth in power.
    Let's suppose one of them wants the levels of something at 2000 and the other wants the levels of that thing at 4000. (It could be budget deficit spending, immigration, etc)

    Well, when one Party gets into power, they're going to try to amplify the increase/decrease even beyond the level they think is optimal, to try to compensate for the years when the other party was in power. So instead of having a period of 2000, followed by a period of 4000, there's more likely going to be a period of 1000 followed by a period of 5000.

    This is phenomena is going to increase the instability of government policy.
    With the two side effectively waging a "war" on each other, trying to go to further extremes when they get into power, to attempt to undo the policies of the other.
     
  2. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's right. Nowodays democracy is in crisis everywhere in the world anyway.

    I think that another problem of democracy is that it favor manipulative narcissic in power, furthermore, it favor the division of society in two opposed clan that would hate each other. Furthermore it encourage leaders to not care about long term issues and favor only short term things, and policies need to be conceived on a long term.
    I can't say there is something better, but more I observe the situation in democratic countries, the more I'm doubtfull about the ability of democracy to survive on a long term.

    We could add more critics to that, but I'm afraid our democracies will know the same fate than Athenian democracy and Roman republic for the same reasons.
     
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  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Two parties oscillating back an forth in power is not a democracy, but an oscillating oligarchy.
    Question: what is the minimum number of entities required to form a democracy?
    Can two people form a democracy? Think marriage (though not the only form of a binary union) as a starting point. Can they constitute a democracy?
     
  4. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Federalist #10.
     
  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    How many Americans, no matter the issue, can vote for what they truly believe is in the best interest of the USA? This requires an electorate who is not partisan and who is open-minded to all options. My answer is 3!

    It's interesting that at Microsoft for example that everything they do is in the best interest of the company. When they have problems the employees are required to do whatever is in the best interest of the company and solve those problems. Yet in our local and federal governments, there is a complete breakdown in collectively doing what's in the best interest of the nation. This has been replaced with closed-minded, greedy, self-serving, partisan, and what's in it for me mentality!

    IMO ,as long as the US electorate performs at this level, it's no wonder why things are so horrible today...
     
  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    No? That's not really what happens because they know when they get booted out of office, they will need those protections in place. The PRI in the 1990's strengthened the courts as a means of preserving political power in the transition to democracy as a means of securing political power. Yes they took political power for themselves through the courts, but a means of a balancing act, not a see saw.
     
  7. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Illogical.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant...
     
  9. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Logic is always relevant.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The process of logic IS NOT 'relevant' unless you can attribute it to a science to determine arguments and critical thinking in order to obtain a reasonable/correct outcome. Further, in today's questionable atmosphere, I'd say one man's logic is another man's lack of relevance. Within a scientific process, with involved others consensus of the scientific process, logic has 'one' meaning, while Joe-Blow discussing religion, for example, has another meaning to logic. Sadly, it seems tens of millions of people, will refuse true logic, when the outcome challenges their personal positions...
     
  11. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Logic is NOT subjective, by its very definition. "Logic" does not mean "point of view." You might consider taking the time to learn more about it. Your post is an excellent example of how a lack of mutually understood standards makes rational discourse impossible.
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you should reread my comments in which you won't find any statements about how I personally feel about logic. When over half of Americans have little use for science, for logic, for best problem solving, etc. it is arrogant to believe 'everyone' is going to follow logical processes. Any 'lack of rational discourse' is an outcome of the limitations of humans...
     
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Have you ever considered Ranked Voting?...

    -Meta
     
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  14. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    You really don't seem to understand the terms in question.
     
  15. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.

    However for assemblies I prefer random polling, I love randomness, there is something you can't controle about that and I think it's for the best.
     
  16. bomberfox

    bomberfox Active Member

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    Also consider why the divisions are hampering the ability for the government to operate today vs in the past. What we call democracy is mainly bought and paid for with our proportions being determined by whoever won such and such election in the past gaining the ability to draw the maps.
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Because 'most' voters and politicians are incapable of voting for what's in the best interest of the USA and the world. Where being a politician should be about service to the nation, it is now about winning or losing, long term employment, and power...
     
  18. bomberfox

    bomberfox Active Member

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    How can we know this when the voters are constantly being disempowered?
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Open your eyes and look around and see how things are going for us today? It's ironic that you talk about voter disempowerment when in fact voters have the most power in the USA. As I said, politicians and VOTERS, have become incapable of doing what's in the best interest of the USA...
     
  20. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I think that's more a consequence of district-based, winner-take-all elections. Some venomous partisanship has also been steadily injected into our system by special-interest fueled mass media (Fox News, e.g.) so we're left where we are today.

    There's also some weaknesses in our constitution, or the interpretation of it at least, and specifically I am referring to political contributions being functionally the same as bribes.

    Fixing some of these issues would improve our system, but ultimately democracy is like asking the average person to make the most complicated of decisions indirectly, while it would be better to find a way to get smart people to make the decisions without becoming corrupt. Democracies strength is in limiting corruption by turn-over and giving stability by making people feel like they can do something about what angers them. I really think a better system is possible, but both our culture and the powerful in our society make that unlikely to happen soon.
     

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