Anti WHITE Race quotes and views..............

Nope, as clear as one can be.

 

They all happened to be middle-aged and male too but you didn't seem that was worth mentioning. If you agree their race was something they jut happened to be, why would you even mention that at all?

Still rubbish. I'm the one saying race is irrelevant in this context. You started a thread about it.

But sticking up for (all) whites is a stupid as attacking them. When people make derogatory remarks about any racial group, the correct response is to point out that stupidity (or ignore it at let the stupidity speak for itself), not simply mirror it.

 

What does it matter whether the founders were all middle aged, teens or old men?

Again, back to the OP where I highlighted quotes of people (perhaps all whites themselves) who were basically calling for the end of the WHITE people, or that WHITE people should feel guilty of the slavery acts during the 19th century. So again, I'm merely sticking up for the WHITE people who have been getting a bad rap and have been called racists etc.; and in doing so I'm showing my pride toward my ancestors for what they've accomplished.

But the point is that its the people who were quoting in the OP about race and about bashing the WHITE race that is indeed relevant to this entire thread.

Who said I'm sticking up for all whites? Show me where I've ever stood up for a white liberal.

The derogatory remarks made by those in the OP happen to be systemic to the liberal elite and their followers. All of the leftist people quoting their hatred of WHITE people from the OP just happen to be professionals with many being professors teaching our young how to become racists and or race baiters like themselves. You think we should just ignore all these professionals?

 

I'm suggesting that is entirely the wrong way of responding to such stupid statements. Saying white people should feel proud because "good" people in the past happened to be white is just as stupid as saying white people should feel guilty because "bad" people in the past happened to be white.

 

I'm getting the feeling that you've never been proud of anything.

 

I've been proud of stuff I've actually done or been involved in. I can't take pride in something other people do just because they happen to share some random characteristic with me.

 

Some people are just mad that they were born in the wrong century. I'm noticing that a lot on PF.

 

I was involved in one of America's wars, and as such I was proud of every one of my platoon cohorts, as well as proud of every American who ever served in the military; and I was proud of them regardless of their race. Sorry to hear that you can't be proud of anything you weren't directly involved with. I can't imagine a father not being proud of his son or daughter when THEY graduated high school or when they received top honors at a University etc.

 

I can't imagine a parent not being involved in their child's education. That's a world away from the formation of a complex nation hundreds of years before we were even born.

 

I get it...I get it...you cannot be proud of anything or anyone that comes from the past and or is not living. Unlike you, I'm proud of all of the deceased military men who sacrificed their lives for us so that we can live in the freest nation on earth.

 

I'm certainly appreciative of and respectful towards such people, I'm just not convinced pride is an appropriate emotion in that context. Maybe we just have subtly different semantic views of the word - it is one of those fuzzy terms that everyone looks at slightly differently.

This is somewhat off-topic from the question of saying negative or positive things about groups of people defined on racial grounds though.

 

Yeah, I don't know how or why we veered so far from the OP, but getting back to the OP, do you have any thoughts about all those who quoted bad or negative things about the WHITE race?

 

Some of us finally got disgusted enough to put the resident racists here on ignore, so as you said, stop bothering with them.

 

I did comment on them briefly on them in my first reply ("If the subsequent quotes are accurate and in context (I suspect it's a mixture to be honest), I'm more than happy to agree that they're idiots.") but I focused on the narrative conclusion rather than the alleged examples because I felt that was more important. I can look at them in more detail though;

#1 - Is an inference, not a quote and doesn't give any supporting evidence. Equating the early pioneers with Nazis would be grossly simplistic at best. Reporting some bad things some early pioneers may have done wouldn't be. Without reading the book (or at least some direct quotes), we can't judge. There is also no actual reference to race here.

#2 - Hard to judge from a partial quote without context (and I'm always suspicious of partial quotes). If she's saying this is what white people are, she'd be an idiot. If she's saying this is how the term white is sometimes misused, she'd be right. Again, we can't judge without reading the entire article.

#3 - Similar to the previous, there is something of a distinction between (mis)using the word white to represent a more detailed concept and directly associating that concept with white people in general. The wider concept of the publication does sound bad but yet again, we'd need more than selective quoting to make an honest judgement.

#4 - This is getting repetitive. Same issues as with #2 and #3.

#5 - I obviously disagree on the general concept of ethnic pride and the quote (at least a complete sentence) does look bad - as a statement in itself it is ridiculously emotive. I'd still want more context though.

#6 - This is slightly more incriminating and if the quote is being presented honestly, I'd happy call it fundamentally flawed. I can't help noticing that it's another partial quote and the word "white" (or anything similar) isn't directly in it though.

#7 - If he's means the confession should come from everyone, I'd say he could have a point. If he's only referring to white people, he's simply wrong. This isn't even inferred by the reference though.

#8 - Again, wrong if it is as presented but is another partial quote out of context so I'd want to see more before judging.

You might not like that assessment but it's my honest impression. Please don't take a tack that I'm defending anyone or refusing to accept facts. I'm happy to call people out if they're shown to be saying something wrong, stupid or dangerous regardless of what it is. I'm always cautious about this kind of thing though, especially without knowing the original source (are you Jared Taylor or did you lift this from somewhere else?).

 

Your assessment here as well as your first response seem to be tiptoeing around the fact that the quotes from the OP are besides being idiotic a much more troubling systemic plague among the leftist population as a whole. Like I said in the opening---those were just a few of the many quotes coming from that particular book. One of the problems I see with this immigration issue is that people are blind to the fact that race is the overriding factor in analyzing any and all the problems associated with it. You'll be hard pressed to find problems with what little immigration we have from WHITE Europeans these days. For example: You don't see us debating over the need to build an Eastern Seaboard wall to keep out WHITE Europeans....do you? Any talk about curtailing or completely stopping our current immigration until we catch our breath and assess the current damage is met by these leftists with cries of racism. So you see how it becomes nearly impossible to discuss and debate this issue in a reasonable (racist free) manner.

 

I'm not tiptoeing around anything. I don't think your "systemic plague" actually exists. I certainly don't think those quotes demonstrate one. Lots of people say stupid things about race from all sorts of different directions but then lots of people say stupid things about pretty much everything. I don't think there is anything special about race other than to the people who try to make it special.

In the USA sure, but that's just a function of history and geography. In Western Europe, white immigrants from Eastern Europe are a key part of the issue. Within Africa, immigration will generally involve the same nominal race and any issues will likely be cultural (and practical). In the UK we've had decades of immigration from places like India, Pakistan and Bangladesh with relatively few problems yet it is immigrants from the same part of the world that are causing so much concern today. To call race an overriding factor suggests an extremely blinkered view of a hugely complex issue.

Simply calling objections to immigration racism is indeed stupid and is sadly an all too common retort. Unfortunately, people who are racist will also object to immigration in exactly the same way which is why that happens. Of course, not unlike you condemning "leftists" by painting them all with the "anti-White" brush based on a handful of third-hand half-quotes.

Like it or not, racism is a factor in the immigration debate - it's pretty much inevitable given human nature. We need to stop it having significant influence but that still requires addressing and accounting for it in the debate.

 

Well of course you wouldn't think it exists since you're a foreigner who doesn't have access to the many American TV and radio outlets that have been covering this immigration problem 24/7.

I'm not concerned about any immigration policies you may or may not have in Europe. If you're perfectly content with having an influx of Muslims setting up Sharia Law in many European nations...then who am I to find fault with that. No, my concern is with our unbridled and costly immigration in America.

Until I see or hear of a liberal who makes sense in first defining the Mexican immigration as a pock mark on our society (for sundries of reasons), and second in denouncing any and all whites who continue to blame legitimate legal WHITE Americans as the problem--then I'll keep painting all leftists/liberals with the same broad brush.

What's this I see....you coming around to admitting that these leftists are race baiting the issue, and in fact could be called racists in doing so?

 

Then you're not in a very strong position to object when you're painted with the broad brush of racism because you're anti (specifically non-white) immigration.

There does seem to be a thematic problem running through all of this, where people are being seen as characters of the groupings their associated with that as the individual human beings we all actually are. Pretty much everyone is guilty of that convenient lie.

I've got nothing to come around to - my initial reply said as much. I'm suggesting that you need to come around to the fact that you at the very least could be seen to be doing exactly the same thing in the opposite direction. Looking at this "debate" from the outside, the people on both extremes appear to have a lot more in common than any of you might like to admit.

 

Are all people in African, China, Japan, Korea, India ect individuals. If so why havent all these countries got the same values, culture and traditions of the West? Its very clear types of people do make a difference, so replacing the population will change the core of values of a country. Israel is a tiny state, if they didnt have discriminatory immigration they wouldnt a Jewish state. Whites are 9% of the population so unless they do the same its simply a matter of numbers and then time to their replacement. That is the point of the 99.9% of those against mass immigration, not that we want any type or colour of person from coming, just to maintain ownership of our own lands. Happy to share yes, to give away no.

 

The same reason the USA and the UK don't. The same reason all of Africa doesn't have a single culture. The same reason all of Europe doesn't have a single culture. There is obviously a whole mass of different factors involved in the development of regional cultures and while racial grouping won't be irrelevant, it is only one of many.

The population of a country with zero immigration is still being constantly replaced. We (in general) don't have the same culture and values as our parents or our children. Immigration can certainly shift things more (sometimes too) quickly, but the idea that any culture is unchanging is flawed.

I suspect that's largely true. It doesn't stop racist arguments being used to attack immigration as a policy, especially in places like the USA when most immigrants happen to be non-white. The problem is that this masks the valid arguments against (and for) immigration and can lead to innocent people, who may not even be immigrants, being impacted because they happen to share (or appear to share) the race of the immigrants.

I disagree with both people in favour of no immigration and people in favour of unrestricted immigration and see only bad arguments from both extremes. Of course, that just means you all see me as "the enemy".

 

Look, as far as me being painted as a racist--that's old news and frankly its beside the point. I am anti any immigration at this point (regardless of the race(s) in question.

Keeping within the parameters of the OP, this current crop of immigrants (be they legal or illegal) are basically all Latinos or Hispanics. But the OP wasn't directly addressing these immigrants as much as it was exposing the professional white leftists need to rag on the WHITE race and in some cases basically disown the race altogether.

I don't see where I being a WHITE PRIDE NATIONALIST could possibly have anything in common with an ever growing group of white leftists who rail against a white race that simply questions the policies and or effectiveness of immigration any time they get the chance. Simply questioning these policies makes me out to be a racist. Okay, we've already established that I'm a racist according to the white leftist standard, so now can we debate the original theme of the OP by getting off the name calling?

 

Because you're rightly condemning them for saying white people are fundamentally bad while at the same time claiming that white people are fundamentally good. White people aren't fundamentally anything, we're as diverse and varied as all other human beings.

It doesn't help when you also make statements like "I'll keep painting all leftists/liberals with the same broad brush.", suggesting a tendency towards negative generalisations, which is again the kind of thing you were objecting to in others.

Not to me. Treating individuals differently on the basis an identified racial grouping would make you racist. I've not called you racist though.

I've engaged in no name calling and somewhat resent the accusation. What is there left to debate about that though? I've given my opinion of your examples, expressed my doubt at your generalising of them and suggested the overall problem isn't as one sided as you'd like to believe. Everything else were tangential attempts to justify your position (which to be honest still isn't really clear).

 

I don't recall saying WHITE people are fundamentally good. I also don't recall calling all WHITE people fundamentally bad. I made it quite clear that only white leftists, e.g. those quoting from the OP etc. are fundamentally bad for taking undue swipes at their own white race.

Well, that statement may not help you, but it has been an ongoing theme and belief of mine that leftists/liberals have the same attitude about the WHITES who question our current immigration policy(s). Until I see or hear from a prominent leftist (perhaps a congressman, a journalist or the potus) who has a different outlook than that of the people in the OP, then I'll continue to paint them with the same broad leftist brush.

You're right, you've never called me a racist.

What accusation? When I said get off the name calling, I was referring to you assuming various groups are either racist or that they're being called group racists. Nothing personal.

Try reading those quotes from the OP again. The people doing the quoting are all leftists, all professionals, and all have a very big impact on our society as a whole. You tell me how I'm generalizing this obvious one-sided mindset concerning immigration and racism. Give me an example(s) of a prominent leftist who doesn't have the same or similar views as those from the OP.

 

Feel like you're going in circles yet? Psssst, you are wasting your time, it takes an open mind to listen and learn, that is not the case.