Are evangelical Christian youth camps a concern?

Discussion in 'Education' started by Leo2, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Leo2

    Leo2 Well-Known Member

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    I saw a documentary on Sunday evening called 'Jesus Camp', and I found it quite worrying. It focused on the lives of three born-again evangelical Christian kids, the oldest of whom was Levi who seemed about ten. He preaches in his father's church.

    These kids are taught that global warming is a scam, that evolution is a lie, and that dinosaurs walked with men on earth. They speak in tongues, and partake in hysterical 'religious' ceremonies, with waving of hands, crying, and screaming. They also preach to strangers on the street. Levi says that he was 'born again' when he was five. They are nearly all home schooled, and the documentary points out that 75% of home schooled American kids are fundamentalist, evangelical Christians.

    All the adults in this organisation were aggresive and overweight, and the kids totally accepted what they were told. Not one kid asked one question.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

    Shouldn't Americans be concerned about such blatant brainwashing of very young children?
     
  2. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Only if they do not include Urban Survival & Firearms training ...:):trout:
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    It's a parent's right to determine the upbringing of their children. I don't necessarily agree with what the above parents are doing, but I fear a government that could stop such a thing more than I do the harm that the above parents cause.

    Also, remember documentaries have political points of view. Editing can do a lot to change the perception of events.
     
  4. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    I very rarely dispute empirical claims on this forum, but that sounds like bull(*)(*)(*)(*) to me.
     
  5. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    My son was taught that the Holocaust never happened, learning grammar and spelling was a waste of time, and the only compassionate system is communism. He learned those things in public school.

    Public schools, I pay for. Jesus Camps, I don't pay for.
     
  6. Leo2

    Leo2 Well-Known Member

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    It may very well be, but all you need do is Google Jesus Camp, and investigate the claim further. :)
     
  7. Plymouth

    Plymouth New Member

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    I believe you already know how this all pans out, Leo. Should we be? Absolutely. Are we? Absolutely not.

    Many grown Americans share the points of views being espoused in these camps, and therefore feel it is perfectly acceptable to pump their children's heads full of such nonsense. It is a vicious cycle of proselytizing intellectually defenseless minors, which continually perpetuates itself through successive generations.

    But, of course, any moves to stamp out this sort of thing are labelled -- perhaps not unjustly -- as an assault on their religious rights. "What of it," I say; I am quite fed up with nutters abusing the system and hiding behind their "rights." My personal opinion is that it constitutes child abuse, but best of luck getting a judge to draft a writ of agreement.
     
  8. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    They are great brainwashing factories that will make kids great obedient American consumers that will buy stuff they don't need, and want crap they can't afford. It's all about the worship man, dumb them down early and stunt their cognitive development to the level of a 12 year old. That way they will be easy marks and will proudly support the penil correction system when they become adults.
     
  9. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    I might agree, but I don't think it is much worse than what is considered socially acceptable child rearing these days.
     
  10. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about Jesus Camps or Public Schools? As I read it, it sounds like a perfect description of public schools except you forgot to mention bogus science claims and political indoctination.
     
  11. Plymouth

    Plymouth New Member

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    How is that?
     
  12. Flag

    Flag New Member

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    Raising extremist kids in midle east- a threat to america, must me stopped

    Raising extremists in US- cool, those people rock.
     
  13. Plymouth

    Plymouth New Member

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    Where do you get this nonsense? Who here said those were "cool," like you crudely state?

    As your trite remarks demonstrate, you are, without a doubt, one of the most insipidous posters on this forum -- totally bereft of panache and logical inference. A pissant little Columbophobic Portuguese automaton, you are.
     
  14. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    resist we much
     
  15. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    We don't stop people from raising extremist kids in Middle East. If we did, Palestine and Saudi Arabia would be molten glass.

    I wouldn't like to live in a country in which the government had the power to determine how I raise my kids.
     
  16. Leo2

    Leo2 Well-Known Member

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    That raises a very nice (in the original sense of the word,) question. Should people have the right (and the legal power) to rear their children exactly as they please?

    I happen to think that children should be reared more in line with community standards, morals, and ethics than with individual parental preferences. One of the great conceptual problems with traditional conservatives, is the viewing of children as property.

    The poet Kahlil Gibran puts it much better than I ever could, in these lines:

    The US is one of only two countries (the other being Somalia) which refuses to recognise the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and I cannot help but wonder if these 19th century Dickensian attitudes to children are not informed by this national recalcitrance and conservatism.
     
  17. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Growing up in Beverly Hills/Culver City we had "Dirt Bike" Camp in the Malibu Hills ...
     
  18. Flag

    Flag New Member

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    Columbophobic.
    Thats a new one.
     
  19. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

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    I can vouch for how horrifyingly bad Christian camps are. Some are worse than others, I'm sure.

    That said, the First Amendment is clear. If you could prove definitively that these camps lead to suffering later on then you can call it on grounds of child neglect, but stupidity is not yet an indicator measured under those tests.

    The best thing we can do is stand strongly against unscientific claims and try to beat back the crushing nature of Christianity in this country by showing different ways.
     
  20. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    yeah. That'll work. Are you also including the socialist youth camps like those at Utoya? Utoya of the infamous shootings of this past year?
     
  21. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

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    What do you mean by "including"? Do I consider political camps capable of teaching stupid things like religious ones? It's certainly possible. It depends on what it's teaching.
     
  22. Plymouth

    Plymouth New Member

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    Youth camps should be illegal, flat out. I don't care if they're Christian, socialist, or vegetarian in nature.
     
  23. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

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    This seems a bit extreme, given many offer nothing more than hiking, swimming, and other recreational activities.
     
  24. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking more on basic biological levels (i.e. evolutionarily). My job as a parent is to produce successful kids that will live on and become successful adults. Community standards is not a goal. I don't want my kids to be on the same level as the community, but on the level I expect. I have higher standards than my community, hence, I choose to impose those higher standards. Your idea is good in appearance, but tends to produce mediocrity.


    We didn't ratify it, because unlike other countries, when we make a treaty it is considered U.S. law, and we actually enforce it. We don't just make treaties for appearance sake. We take it seriously.
     
  25. Leo2

    Leo2 Well-Known Member

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    A good point, but my idea does not limit the level of excellence to that of community standards, it treats them as the minimum. My real point being, if parents have certain ideas which are not acceptable to the community at large - such as fundamentalist religious beliefs - they do their children a great disservice by indoctrinating them with such concepts. Why not leave such matters until the children are old enough to come to their own conclusions?

    You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
    For they have their own thoughts.

    You may strive to be like them,
    but seek not to make them like you.


    Don't be so self-satisfied - every civilised country that ratified that convention treats it as law. That the US refuses to ratify it, indicates a lesser regard for children in your society. And some of the proprietorial attitudes expressed in these pages confirm that suspicion. I repeat - children are not property, to do with as you wish. You have many responsibilities towards those you choose to bring into this world, but you enjoy no rights over them.

    Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
     

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