Are Mind-Altering Substances Required for Deeper Insight?

I have done drugs and you can't get anywhere as close as you can being drug free. You have to realize that being under the influence is not a pure meditation, it is an altered one. Only without drugs can you reach a higher mental state.

 

Anything is possible when one's heart gets out of rythym while on things like coke and X.

Look at what happened to people like Len Bias, etc.

It is a roll of the dice, for sure, especially if one has an underlying cardiac condition that they may not be aware of.

As long as it doesn't become a daily thing--I am OK with taking my chances occasionally (in terms of recreational use).

 

Your consciousness is just the interaction of chemicals and electricity in your body. Drugs that affect those things can easily alter it.

Whether or not you can count on drugs to produce some kind of higher learning or insight is probably going to depend entirely on the person's brain chemistry, and probably even more so on their personality. It's not even to say that those folks couldn't have those same insights without drugs. Too many variables to really say conclusively one way or another.

 

With respect to perhaps one state, but you will never be able to emulate the range of drugs through will alone--not even close.

 

Well, I should say there is a difference between acquiring insights and just experiencing something altogether different. I'd say drugs are conducive to both, but exclusive to one (the latter).

 

I go to work and take care of my family..

Ill lleave the deep thinking to the unemployed

 

I would agree with that. Just depends on the person really. And the drug and environment too.

 

If you know how to do it you most certainly can. The mind is a powerful thing.

 

A friend of mine once speculated that there is a section of the brain that is triggered when one gets an insight and that LSD causes this section to be triggered randomly. Once while tripping I had a tremendous insight and managed to write it down so I would be able to read it when I came down. My note read:

"I am where I am and I'm here."

This, I believe, lends credence to that theory.

 

Yeah, and that's what it should be up to in the end, one's own discretion. People who've never done drugs, don't know their own limitation upon which to exercise that discretion. So if they do end up doing a drug, they may take too much like Maureen Dowd and freak the (*)(*)(*)(*) out. I know with my resting heart rate being 113bpm that I shouldn't be taking high potency stimulants. I think complete overall prohibition prevents such analysis. Salvia should definitely not be something for recreation, like DMT. They both can (*)(*)(*)(*) your mind.

 

Since you can only do one and not the other LOL. Mutually exclusive, eh?

LMAO yeah, it doesn't always work out. It also doesn't always translate. Sometimes it's simply antithetical to the world of sequential reasoning and cause and effect.

 

I've never done drugs and I know my own mind very well. Try going into the wild for ten days at a time with the bare necessities. I go to Alaska for 2 weeks every year, hunting and fishing...building your own shelter and fire, living off the land. Getting in touch with your primitive mind does not require drugs, and does better than messing yourself up with drugs.

 

It makes at least as much sense to say you can't understand an IC engine without putting sand in the intake manifold.

Everyone who has been "caught with his hand in the cookie jar" and made an excuse to avoid responsibility has experienced that. If you meant "consciousness", everyone who has ever been lost in a daydream has experienced that.

The "self" one discovers via drug use is not a "self" anyone in their right mind would want to know.

 

I lived through the 60's....In SF...Can't get much deeper than that!

 

Yeah, you need to take downers, if anything lol. That's a pretty high resting heart rate!

 

Yes I've been on drugs...pot, speed, cocaine and even acid. Took a puff off a joint laced with something that made me feel like I was in strong tidels waves--made me throw up all over the car I was in.
I Smoked something once that made me feel like I was breathing vinegar. Let me tell you something...that was pretty damn deep. Yep...my mind was opened.

Drugs are way over-rated. Try to plan a future and devise a long-term retirement plan while coming off a pot hangover. Can't happen. Keeping your brain sharp is a much better choice.

 

Oddly enough Nicotine works quite well with managing the heart rate, even though it's a stimulant. The reason for this is it increases blood pressure via thickening of the blood. With a high heart rate also comes low blood pressure, even with nicotine I only reach the low end of normal.

 

That must be why a Zen master that was given LSD was furious.

 

I owned a bar for a decade , I did more drugs then motley crue. Alter your mind! You betcha! !!

 

Depends on the drug. My only salvia trip was amazing but not very insightful. Instantly after taking the hit I tried looking at my friend sitting next to me and I had to shake my head a couple times because the blue sky around me was turning into waves or ripples of water every time I moved my head an inch. I looked down at the bowl I smoked it out of and the bowl was opening and closing like a mouth and talking to me, it was hilarious. I stepped outside of the car we were smoking in and walked around the park for a couple minutes in complete euphoria but I couldn't control my body that well. Like I was walking straight and I was trying to walk to the right but my body kept walking straight and I couldn't understand why. It only lasted like fifteen minutes and then I had a head high like I had smoked some weed for about half an hour. Fun little experiment but I don't feel the need to do it again.

Shrooms on the other hand was very insightful. It completely broke down my ego and I had a very honest introspective look at myself and what was causing problems of stress and depression in my life. The few times I've taken them they've all been pretty trippy and there are some things you probably shouldn't do while on shrooms. You shouldn't look at yourself in the mirror because you might get body dysmorphic disorder for a few hours. The last time I took shrooms I was feeling a little sick at first(it gives you a very weird feeling in the stomach) so I decided to go to the bathroom. I was sitting on the toilet and the designs on the tile of the floor were spinning around in a green tint and it felt like they were rising off of the ground and surrounding me(When I'd look at the wall to stop the dizziness the design of the tiles were still imprinted in my brain and showing themselves on the wall too) and it was making me drowsy so I decided I needed to stand up before I threw up and I ended up looking at the mirror. I looked at myself and I looked a lot taller and skinnier than I know I am when I'm sober and my skin was almost grey like I was about to die so it was kind of freaking me out. It didn't help the design of the tiles were on my face still spinning around and it made it look like my cheeks were melting away or something, I looked sickly. I decided at that point I would just go back to the room my friends and I were hanging out in and act like everything was normal but I kept imagining what I looked like in the mirror and was wondering if my friends saw it too but just didn't want to tell me that I looked like I was about to die. But because I got back in that environment around my friends where there was so much positive energy I stopped thinking about it quickly after the shrooms had settled and had an awesome trip for like 7 more hours. Another thing not to do is take a shower(and probably not to get into the water at all) because it will not help it go away it will just make you incredibly noxious and anxious, I felt like I was going to cramp up into a ball on the floor. I thought it would feel awesome so I wanted to see what it would be like and it was terrible. This happened to my friend too who was really excited to have shower sex with his partner. I went out and got some tacos to come back 45 minutes later with them still in the bathroom. I asked them how fun it was when they got out and they said they didn't even have sex, he was all of a sudden having the same feelings I was having and he ended up getting babysat by his girlfriend while he lay on the ground trying to get his head back on right. For both him and I we felt fine once we got out of the shower so just a heads up to anybody wanting to do this.

I could go on but that's enough text for one post.

 

A few issues for me
1) Each drug affects someone in a different way. Marijuana is different from Heroin. I wouldn't want to try Heroin just to have an understanding in relation to a drug free brain.
2) The effects of certain drugs on people are very clear, again lets look at heroin. The effects of "lighter" drugs on people are not so clear as it can depend on the person, their personality and how strong they are etc.

 

Um........no. At least in regards to pot smoking my friends do not in fact become deep thinkers. Shockingly its quite the opposite.

 

I disagree emphatically that you need drugs to open your mind or reach deep insight. That said, they can be very useful. You can walk to town to get some milk, but it's a whole lot easier if you have a car. I have had a lot of profound insights on LSD, psilocybin, and DMT. Life altering realizations about my social anxiety. I feel it's really made me discover who I was all along.

Then again, meditation and therapy have been successful to that end also. I don't begrudge you if you want to use drugs to gain a deeper understanding of yourself, but I don't think they're necessary at all.

The biggest thing imo is reading. You need to expose yourself to new ideas more than new drugs.

 

I like how you ask about deeper insight then there's at least two pages about sex in this thread....

uh no, I think meditation will give you much deeper insight than drugs, but then as you've said I probably would say that since my history of drug use is almost non existent... shrug

 

I would have to agree. People way underestimate cannabis. It is addictive. I don't care if you want to call it psychological or physical, all I know is if I smoke daily and quit I get withdrawals and cravings. Insomnia, lack of appetite, cold to the touch, etc. It also makes you perform demonstrably worse at certain tasks for a few days after use.

Moderation is the key in all things, not least of all drug use. A sociable drink every now and then can really improve your experience, 10 a day will ruin you financially and emotionally. Same with weed.

On that note, I'm about to light up. Wish me luck!