Are some US and British media outlets biased on Israel & Paelstine?

How many Posts are you going to write misrepresenting the facts put forth in this one simple article(1) I posted?
In case you didn't know, the author, Thomas R. Stauffer was a well respected economist and had little to do with WRMEA.

One cannot establish the cost of Israel and the Israel - Palestinian conflict without factoring in the multiple Israeli betrayals.

For example, how many $ Billions did Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard really cost the US in time, resources and lives?

How much did the Israeli sale of US secrets to the Chinese cost Americans(2) and how much will it cost future Americans.

And, yes, the initiation of the Iraq War was one of AIPAC's "quiet successes"
“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003


Re:

That's right, when you can't refute the facts, trot out the slander.





(1) "The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion"
By Thomas R. Stauffer
https://www.wrmea.org/003-june/the-...israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html


(2) "Israel is being a bad ally to the US over China"
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/israel-is-being-a-bad-ally-to-the-us-over-china

EXCERPTS "To be specific, if Israel continues closely engaging with China, the U.S. must reduce its military, intelligence, and technology engagement with Israel's government. That would be a big step, but this concern is very real.

Unfortunately, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

More concerning than Haifa is the increasingly close relationship between Israeli high-technology industries and China. China will use this access to gain proprietary software and hardware, including U.S. based research and development. Again, that access is fundamentally incompatible with U.S. interests. And it reflects broader American concerns that U.S. military technologies provided to Israel, such as the F-35 strike fighter, might one day find their way into Chinese hands."CONTINUED

 

so @Grau, you're saying the Israel-Palestine conflict has NOT cost the USA trillions of dollars?

good to know we agree, cause the only way you could add up trillions of dollars, is if you blame the Israel-Palestine conflict for things they have NOTHING to do with, like aid to Greece, Turkey, Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, the Caucusas, Afghanistan. You'd also have to blame the Israel-Palestine conflict for our problems with Iran, and the billions of dollars that has costed us. And you'd have to blame Israel-Palestine for Saddam invading Kuwait, and the tons of money we spent kicking out Saddam and then the tons of money we have spent protecting the Saudis and the Gulf States.

that would be ignorant lunacy, right?

or should we also blame Israel for our aid to Latin America, South Korea, and India?

LOLOLOL!!!!

 

Does this assume that the AIPAC lobbying was the critical difference between using force in Iraq and not?

 

Is it true that there is some disconnect between AIPAC and the Israeli government?

 

Iraq?

 

I wouldn't call disagreements between AIPAC and the Israeli government "disconnect". I'm not aware of any serious disagreements though, not since Netanyahu's failed annexation plan.

 

@Grau made the point that "Israeli lobbies do not think like more sensible senior Israeli officials."

 

That's not a point, it's his opinion. Anti-Zionists have to rely on wishful thinking because reality is not their friend.

 

Well, it's HIS point. So would you say that Israeli lobbies and Israeli officials think alike?

 

No.

Grau tried to make it look like AIPAC are extremists. The truth is, as usual, the opposite. Read this and judge for yourself:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-fi...reen-light-to-criticize-israel-on-annexation/

 

Yes,
I've been following Mid East events closely since the deliberate Israeli attack on our USS Liberty and the subsequent cover-up.
LBJ was so fearful of Israel's lobbies that he recalled American fighter planes that were sent to rescue the Liberty's crew
so that the massacre could continue uninterrupted until 34 American lives were sacrificed.

Of course AIPAC was a major factor in driving America to war with Iraq just as it is pushing the US to start a war with Iran.

In spite of my decision to submit the following article, I do not think that all American Jews are supportive of AIPAC's war mongering nor do I think that AIPAC and Israel's more sensible Jews think alike.

"America's Jews Are Driving America's Wars"
https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-jews-are-driving-americas-wars/

EXCERPTS "Philip Zelikow, also Jewish, in a moment of candor, admitted that the Iraq War, in his opinion, was fought for Israel.

So it is safe to say that much of the agitation to do something about Iran comes from Israel and from American Jews. Indeed, I would opine that most of the fury from Congress re Iran comes from the same source, with AIPAC showering our Solons on the Potomac with “fact sheets” explaining how Iran is worthy of annihilation because it has pledged to “destroy Israel,” which is both a lie and an impossibility as Tehran does not have the resources to carry out such a task.

The AIPAC lies are then picked up and replayed by an obliging media, where nearly every “expert” who speaks about the Middle East on television and radio or who is interviewed for newspaper stories is Jewish.

Call it like it is. And if someone’s feelings are hurt, too bad. We don’t need a war with Iran because Israel wants one and some rich and powerful American Jews are happy to deliver. Seriously, we don’t need it."CONTINUED

 

No, the Lavon affair was an earlier Israeli False Flag (1950s) in which Israeli agents dressed as Egyptians firebombed American installations, blamed the Egyptians and tried to get the US to attack Egypt for them.


"THE LAVON AFFAIR
IS HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF?"

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/lavon.html

EXCERPT "In 1954, Israeli agents working in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including a United States diplomatic facility, and left evidence behind implicating Egyptian Muslims as the culprits. The ruse would have worked, had not one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to capture and identify one of the bombers, which in turn led to the round up of an Israeli spy ring.

Some of the spies were from Israel, while others were recruited from the local Jewish population. Israel responded to the scandal with claims in the media that there was no spy ring, that it was all a hoax perpetrated by "anti-Semites".

But as the public trial progressed, it was evident that Israel had indeed been behind the bombing."CONTINUED

 

anti-Semitic bullshit.

do they also blame Jews for the Cold War? for our current issues with Russia and China?

how about Global Warming?

is Covid a Jewish plot for world domination??

this website, and others like it, clearly suffer from IDS "Israel Derangement Syndrome".

 

Just as I suspected, this is a bullshit hate site, that suggests that Israel created Covid-19 so as to kill off the Iranians.

https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/who-made-coronavirus-was-it-the-u-s-israel-or-china-itself/

I guess IDS knows no bounds. Next up, why did Israel create influenza???

LOLOLOL

 

Pisa can we start to differentiate between "Zionist", "Jewish" and "Israel please?
You seem to mistakenly crush them all into one identity .
A Zionist is one particular ideology largely to do with recreating Israel as it was described in the Torah, and is heavily concerned with the Jewish homeland.
Jewish comes in different "flavours" including Reform and Orthodox .
Israel is a political entity which changes according to who is in power. Currently and for some time, a Zionist has been directing Israeli policy. He very nearly lost it recently (amid growing corruption scandals) and has had to form a coalition.
So one can be an anti-Zionist but be pro Israel (as you can be an anti-Democrat and still be pro America.)

I suspect that the Zionists retain their power base because they talk up their being surrounded by enemies and they need a strong defense (Palestine/Iran/Hamas etc). So they play the nationalist card. That as not meant as a criticism, but if you want to discuss realism, you have to add that into the mix.

 

in this world, "Zionist", "Jew" and "Israeli" are often interchangeable.

 

Then those who do it are not speaking the truth and base all discussion inaccurate and useless.

As useless as someone who conflates American with Democrat with facile murderers.

 

anti-semites do it, and some right-wing jews and israelis do it.

but of course, very often when israelis and zionists are criticized, its cuz they are jews

 

That is what I said.
To criticise "Jews" via discussion of Zionists and Israel is sloppy, facile and the end result of ignorance.

I have some issues with the state of Israel's policies and do not agree with Zionists' fundamental interpretation of Judaism as a political objective, but I have no issue with Judaism as a legitimate faith, as legitimate as Islam or Christianity.
However, to slide one aspect of it into or under another is something that leads to huge misunderstandings and reasons to practice antisemitism.

 

Sure, Israelis are pushing for the USA to attack Iran's nuclear sites.

did the Israelis create Covid-19 so as to murder Iranians? that's a bullshit anti-semitic bigoted theory that doesn't deserve entertaining.

 

While you're gossiping about Grau you should know that I'm not the only person who regards the single issue, parasitic AIPAC as extremists who will do or say anything to prey on my country and excuse Israel's numerous betrayals of the US.


"AIPAC’s Extremism Serves Israel Badly : Obsessed With Its Great Clout, Lobby Loses Sight of What It’s Doing"
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-08-08-me-20-story.html

EXCERPT "AIPAC would have the American people believe that U.S. and Israeli interests in the Middle East are identical. AIPAC also would have Americans believe that Israel is always right (a kind of modern-day political version of papal infallibility), or, at the very least, that the United States is morally and politically bound to support any action by any Israeli government.

There has been virtually no official Israeli act for which AIPAC has not offered a justification, exculpatory explanation or mitigatory excuse. Such acts have included a deliberate attack on an unarmed U.S. naval vessel (the Liberty in 1967), illegal annexation of foreign territory (the Golan Heights in 1981), strategic deceit of its only ally (the invasion of Lebanon in 1982), complicity in war crimes (the Sabra and Chatilla massacres), espionage against the U.S. military (the Pollard spy case), and short-sighted occupation policies (still in progress in Gaza and the West Bank)" CONTINUED

 

Yes, some media favors Israel. Other media is unfairly against Israel.

 

I don't see the relevance to my post, but I'll answer.

I'm Jewish, Zionist, and Israeli. I'm well aware what every one of these terms means.

Israelis are not a nation. "Israeli" is a citizenship. There are Arab, Druze, Aramean, Circassian, and other minorities in Israel, all Israeli citizens, but not members of the same nation as Jews. Perhaps in a few centuries Israelis will indeed become a distinct nation, though I can't imagine it happening without serious religious and social reforms throughout the MENA. For now, Israelis are not a nation, Jews are.

All Jews belong to the same nation as Israeli Jews. The Jews who don't have Israeli citizenship are members of the same Jewish nation as Israeli Jews.

Nope.

Zionism was never a monolithic movement, nor a religious monopoly.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/a-definition-of-zionism

There's no such thing as "Zionists' fundamental interpretation of Judaism", not as a political objective, nor as anything else. Zionists are not a monolithic group, and there just isn't such a thing as a "fundamental interpretation of Judaism". Me thinks you meant "fundamentalist", which is even weirder, because the leaders of the Yishuv were mostly socialist.

Are you saying that antisemitism is a legitimate reaction to what individual Jews think and speak? Are you blaming Jews for antisemitism?

 

I never said Israelis are a nation. I said ISREAL is a nation. I am quite aware that more than one ethnic group live in Israel.
I also would question whether Jews are nation in the usual sense. There are subsets of Jews and

 

I never said Israelis are a nation. I said ISREAL is a nation. I am quite aware that more than one ethnic group live in Israel.
I also would question whether Jews are nation in the usual sense. There are subsets of Jews and I never suggested Judaism is a monolithic movement or a religious monopoly (whatever th at is.)
I merely asked for your definitions of terms you use and I find them unique. For example why should I think Zionists are not socialists too? One is a branch of a faith, the other a political ideology.
What I found disturbing was your last question. Please do not go all defensive with me, I have never mentioned or suggested I am antisemitic, nor discussed anyone else's antisemitism. I have one mentioned I can trace my Jewish family back to the 17th century and further, I adhere strongly to secularity. I am fully aware that Judaism is more than a faith ...you make it sound a bit like a North American Indian tribe, calling it "a family" but I can accept that.
My criticisms are all directed towards Israel the State and its foreign policy. Please don't forget that.