Atheist Churches, For Real?

Swensson

Laudable thought, but foolish and unworkable.

That is like saying you hate slavery and will speak against it, while showing respect for slave owners.

Regards
DL

 

Atheists, cooking the books, hiding the figures from their parishioners, bilking them out of millions, then building themselves 2 million dollar homes pales anything any deity church has done.

If you listened to the video, the one atheist minister owns a multimillion dollar home that remains empty and at the same time evicted a 89 year church member who was unable to pay her rent, and threw her stuff out on the street where people were stealing it from her.

I guess that is atheist brotherly love and making the world a better place?

That is what churches do, they build their community, the community composed of believers in the same religion. If the state would do that it would be over the top establishment of religion, oh wait the state does that OOPs! LOL

 

No, but nice to see some atheists forming a religion though, if that is what they want. I am in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Guess what, I believe that the whole FSM thing is a bit of fun and there is probably not a real FSM

 

thats very nice that you are doing what you dont believe in, hope it works out for you.

 

They are maintaining traditional activities without the brainwashing. Seems fine to me.

Beyond that, now liberals and the intelligentsia have a church to use for political propaganda too [tax free]!

Now pray:
Our Obama
Who art in Hawaii
How we miss you name
The nut has come
His will not done
In Washington or in Bibleland
Give us this day our sanity
As we forgive those who have lost theirs
Lead us not into Trumplandia
And deliver us from religious zealots
Aloha

 

That things about pastors making millions is actually about Christian pastors. The Sunday Assembly is not a mega-church in any way and doesn't have mass numbers of people showing up in one place. Although they call themselves megachurches that doesn't mean they actually have the numbers because the reality is that 99% of atheist don't go to an atheist church. These churches are more philosophy and community organizations since they lack a holy book, a deity, belief in an after-life or a belief in faith. Churches are a great way for the community to bond and get together, work on self-improvement, and meet like-minded people and some atheists want that too just without the religion. But most stay home and watch football.

 

And remain dumbed down just like the governments likes.

Regards
DL

 

A lof ot atheists won support that kind of movement. Atheism is just the fact you don't believe in any gods, hippies and some nazis could be both atheist with very different kind of way of thinking.

 

So you know atheism isn't a religion and I can address anyone your OP may have misled.

Atheism describes a singular belief (or lack thereof depending on you point of view), just as theism does, unsurprisingly as it is the direct opposite. Religion describes sets of beliefs and practices. There can be religions that include or infer atheism as an element but that doesn't make atheism a religion, just as all of the different religions involving belief in gods don't make theism a religion.

Clearly these "atheist churches" have been set up for various reasons, ranging from trying to make social points about religion (poorly IMO), simple profiteering from the naive and vulnerable (like some theistic churches do) or an honest acknowledgement of the positive aspects of religion while recognising that gods are not a vital aspect (after all, there are "real" non-theistic religions already). Fools and frauds might try to use their existence to promote the lie of atheism being a religion but they're fools and frauds so not worthy of consideration anyway.

 

But it is also what other organisations do. Universities do similar things, as do other organisations. I can't say there aren't parallels to be drawn, but that's not the measure by which we figure out that something is a religion.

The example you give even says "Christianity", do you argue that atheism is actually a form of Christianity?

 

There is no misleading that is purely a fantasy. The same could be said theism, and religion that atheists condemn with the meaning anything to do with God and beliefs other than atheist beliefs.

Its intellectually dishonest to apply a narrow sense to what I said while at the same time applying a broad sense to to imply your post has some sort of superior reasoning, it does not, in a word, busted.

I dont repeat in every post what I have explained countless times over the years and again recently in the mockery thread, but thanks anyway for the pretentious position used to claim I have misled someone, I have not.

My explanation far more exhaustive and exceeds yours and is precisely accurate despite the necessity to use generic dumbed down language for public consumption.

Sorry if you have a personal dog in this debate to protect, atheism is a subset of secular humanism based upon their alleged worldview, and secular humanism is a religion.

See above explanation.

 

Now had you actually watched the clip, you would know that is 100% false. It is about legal atheist ministers bilking people out of millions so they can take hundreds of thousands of dollar salaries for themselve and build multimillion dollar houses for themselves that are empty while kicking 89 year old little old ladies out on the street for missing rent payment.

So then they are lying about the size of their churches too, that does not surprise me.

So they are no different than theist deity based churches in community function, God v antiGod, and people would fool themselves if they were to believe they did not have their holy book, https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/ looks like a bible to me

Yes they are a great way for communities to bond.

Atheist activism is the expression of your beliefs and expressing and putting your beliefs into practice is exercising your religion. You can correctly state without any 'theist ordained' deity from the abrahamic teachings but your without religion claim is completely nonsequitur.

 

No the video under your section "Mega Church Money" is specifically about mega-church Baptist Pastor Steven Furtick.

Wrong again. The San Diego atheists just call themselves a coalition and is just a a bunch of atheist groups that like to meet up, like a club.
https://unitedcor.org/coalition-of-reason/san-diego/

The Sunday Assembly doesn't claim to be a mega-church and was started by a couple of comedians and their religious way of referring to their organization is comedic. That organization is really just a club not a religion.
https://www.sundayassembly.com/story

Its just the misleading news articles you have been posting that calls them "megachurches."

No, theist churches worship their deity, atheist organizations don't worship anything and more more like political/philosophy clubs.

Having favorite books about your point of view do not make them holy books on the level of the bible.

No, expressing and putting your beliefs into practice isn't a religion. Beliefs can be about anything like self-help, philosophy, health, or politics and doesn't have to be religious in nature.

 

I've no major disagreement with your explanation. It still doesn't support the idea that atheism (or theism) is a religion though. It can form part of the basis for religions in a similar way to theism, and indeed does, beyond the examples that led to this thread. No individual belief can be a religion in itself or it would be impossible to have countless different (often contradictory) religions that include that belief as part of it's core doctrine.

I've no more of a dog in this debate than you do.

I think it's open to question whether secular humanism is a religion for other reasons but I accept that it can be considered one. That would support my point though; It is secular humanism we're calling a religion, not atheism.

 

I agree that many atheists will not support such a church just as many Christians do not support theirs. That lack of Christian support is why, even with a growing population, Christianity is dying in the West. In the Netherland, for instance, 95% off the population claim to be Christians yet only about 4% step into a church even once a year.

Atheists tend to have a low threshold of tribal and fellowship needs which is what religions feed on and are created to appease. I know this as a fact because I was a full atheist before becoming a Gnostic Christian and from my chats with atheists.

I still have that low threshold but have come to recognize the social value of community churches, while still disliking the organized con game and perpetual lying of priests, preachers and imams of the mainstream religions.

Regards
DL

 

It works wonderfully well, been celebrating Christmas for years with friends and family, had meals with Krishna's, been to religious weddings and funerals. Great thing about being an atheist with no religion and lacking any belief about gods, free to go where I please and enjoy others celebrating theirs.

 

Thats not part of being an atheist and has nothing to do with atheism, anyone is free party with people from most any religion, nothing unique or special about that.

What you and so many others out here that lack belief are actually describing isnt atheism or agnostic its leans much closer to nihilism

nihilism

1. the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
   synonyms: skepticism, negativity, cynicism, pessimism
   
   
   
   A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.
   
   It has been over a century now since Nietzsche explored nihilism and its implications for civilization. As he predicted, nihilism's impact on the culture and values of the 20th century has been pervasive, its apocalyptic tenor spawning a mood of gloom and a good deal of anxiety, anger, and terror. Interestingly, Nietzsche himself, a radical skeptic preoccupied with language, knowledge, and truth, anticipated many of the themes of postmodernity. It's helpful to note, then, that he believed we could--at a terrible price--eventually work through nihilism. If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind.

 

Thats not what atheists preach at their masses however when they hold their hands out for people to donate at the collection box.

What brings others together to form a group is always commonality. Thats a good point no one enjoys being the 'odd duck' so like tend to gather with like.

 

True. Most of us fear standing alone. Most of us are sheeple instead of free agents who have what it takes to lead.

As to supporting any movement of group. We all pay for entertainment or education and tithes are ok as we should not mind paying to be entertained, educated or having our hivish/fellowship natures appeased.

The church took it too far though because then the people are paying to be lied to.

Regards
DL

 

Not true, Fertik is the star of the documentary, thats all, it covers a plethora of angles and several atheist preachers who are cheating the public and exactly how they are doing it and the inappropriate things they are doing. Frankly makes deity based religions look like angels by comparison.

Yes another falsehood you are claiming. Large churches throughout the US have 1000-1500 membership, Fertiks church as over 14000 members, 10+ times the membership is mega by anyone elses calculator but yours apparently.

Sure they do, they claim they dont worship anything but they do, most worship scientific method as their dogma but then throw it all out the window when they claim to be an atheist, since to be an atheist is acceptance based upon 'faith' <-religion, not factual scientific method as they purport.

So far I see nothing but contradictions in the essential foundations of atheism before we even get into the real meat and potatoes.

Again, the atheists writings are their dogma and bible, the gospel of 'lack', just because its not headlined does not change that fact.

No, yes.
Sure ALL beliefs are not religion, no one ever said or implied 'ALL' beliefs are religion, that is simply an error in your understanding or a strawman of your creation, however health and politics certainly are.

Politics is most often private religion taken public, such as bigamy, gay cakes, and forced belief in the holocaust for instance in europe, and maintaining health is by your choice of foods and in that regard most certainly is your religion, it pertains to your salvation and survival and 'quality' of life, and your accepted as true philosophy and related 'beliefs' are the foundation of your religion, how you could say otherwise escapes me.

 

Atheism is simply another faith based religion.

Ironic but true.

 

The issue here however is that the same could said for theism, yet every atheist out here demands theism is a religion, likewise Christianities pure philosophical/theological component is not a religion either, however it is the root or core of what is practiced which is a religion. So sure if you want to split that hair fine but I see no point made by it unless to prove my point, that these conclusions people make based upon philosophy or simply belief in a deity passed down by tradition is is pie in the sky up to the point its practiced where it is then properly defined as their religion.

Now that is patently false, though in practice people have incorporated volumes of beliefs as their core but since you want to split hairs, no, that is incorrect it only takes one to be a religion, quantity is not a controlling factor, quality is.

Well that really tells us nothing since anything conceivable is 'open to interpretation', however when we look at the bulk of the ingredients that is what determines if its a cake or hamburger, which is not so much open to interpretation as no matter how broad one wants to paint it they are completely different ingredients.

 

Clearly not since I'm atheist and I'm specifically stating that theism isn't a religion. Even if some people say it is, it would be irrelevant; others ignorance is not a valid reason to copy them. Atheism isn't a religion, theism isn't a religion and I agree that Christianity at it's basic core isn't a religion either. All this is building on the principle that simply saying "Atheism is a religion" is wrong.

I didn't say a religion can't be based on a single belief (though I doubt it in practice, certainly not simple high-level beliefs like "A god or gods do/don't exist"), I said no belief can be a religion. As we've already said, religion is a combination of belief and practice.

I only mentioned it because different people have different opinions, often strongly held. It's a moot point since I accepted that as an assumption and addressed Secular Humanism as a religion (which is distinct from atheism).

 

but jeo, WE AGREE, each ingredient of a cake is not a cake until they are blended together and baked, likewise each element of religion is not religion until its comes together and is acted upon. (exercised as in the constitution or used as self governance and practiced)

we could say Christianity is distinct from a Christian too.

I have made that clear many times in my explanations, what if anything do you feel I do not see in your post, or are you saying that I am as bad as the atheists by speaking overly broad?

 

Hence it is clear atheism isn't a religion by any stretch of the imagination. That makes me wonder what you motive was in re-raising such clearly disruptive and divisive question.

I'm not interested in playing anyone off against each other (especially if that was the intention of your thread). What I'm saying here is about your statements alone, nobody else's are relevant.