Australia's Hard Choice Between China and the US

Let's see: when push comes to shove do you choose to align with your major trading partner for reasons of future prosperity, or do you choose to stick with an old ally who's future economic prosperity is highly questionable?

The article writer see the choice as one of balancing schizophrenia - as "the business and financial community continue to see China as Australia’s future, [whereas] the defense and intelligence establishment in Canberra take a different view.".

Will Australia's Five Eyes faction win the argument or will their trading elite be triumphant?

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/01/11/australia-hard-choice-between-china-and-us.html

 

More and more the baby boomer trio of clinton-bush-obama and their legacy in office of giving our economic power away to china comes back to haunt us

 

There is no conflict. We should promote trade and honest relations with both, entangling alliances with neither.

I support greater trade ties with Asia. I support and end to the ANZUS treaty with the US. That doesn't mean the US can't be a strong ally going forward, we share similar culture, similar values of liberty and economy, and a common origin in the United Kingdom.

The hegemony needs to end, however.

 

China is not a cuddly benevelent teddy bear

It believes strongly in hegmony and wants to use it to benefit china at everone eles expense

If austrailia falls under chinas thumb it will be sorry

 

As I said, I support peace, trade and honest friendship with all nations that are willing. I do not support entangling alliances no matter how friendly we are.

If China is going to invade they're going to invade. Being peaceful and trading freely is not going to change that, except to promote a peace through economic ties.

 

Greed coming back to haunt America, you mean. The US switched to producing/manufacturing in China to lower workforce costs and increase profits.

 

I might have written that. It certainly encompasses much of my own opinion re trade etc. It seems that common sense decisions is, however, not permitted in this world of ours.

PS, I would think that the more binding treaty is not ANZUS but rather the UKUSA agreement that covers multilateral signals intelligence which took the head of Gough Whitlam.

 

Business is business. They can do it with whomever they think is their best choice. That's called competition.

 

In April of 2017 after China spoke up and said they would come to the aid of N Korea if attacked. But not if N Korea started the conflict. The Aussies stated they would come to the Aid of the US if the US is attacked. So to did New Zealand.

Which then China went mute for a couple of days. Guess they had to think about that.

@scarlet witch is an Aussie.....I think we should get her perspective.

 

It's best to side with the communist dictatorship.

 

Thats bullshit

Before clinton opened our market to china liberals accused corporations of not wanting foreign competition so that they could protect their domestic market

So clinton stabbed American workers in the back by allowing cheap chinese imports and driving jobs overseas

 

So why doesn't the US have a solid manufacturing base anymore? Instead it has a financial engineering / service economy these days.

They off-shored it is why. Because it was cheaper and, therefore, more profitable. It was stupid and short-sighted and predicated on the Neocons new neoliberal World Order being pushed back in the 1980-90's.

The decision was taken during the Reagan/Bush Administration. I was told that by a member of the Reagan Administration who had a call from Treasury Secretary, Nick Brady, who just said "we're going South", meaning the US was switching its industrial base to the southern hemisphere.

http://prospect.org/article/plight-american-manufacturing

 

A truly myopic view then, of US intent and policy. The US invested to improve the condition of the Chinese in recognition of the need to do so so that their political ideology didn't continue to abuse and destroy it's people. Digging China out of third world nation status seems to have been somewhat successful, right? And at least we haven't seen another iteration of the cultural revolution and it's home grown genocide...

 

Of course they went offshore after cheap chinese goods flooded the market

Corporations had no choice

 

When China joined the WTO, a clause was inserted into the agreement that gave industrialized nations a 12 year window allowing them to limit Chinese imports as they adjusted to this new reality.

That was in 2001. Neither Bush nor Obama chose to exercise that option. That window closed in 2013.

Corporations opted for short term profits instead of protecting American jobs. Our government obliged them.

It's silly to blame China for a self-inflicted wound.

 

m
I included bush and obama in the blame for what happened to American workers

Corporations were firced to move offshore to stay in business

 

If you are chinese or a china apologist dont get mad at me because I vlearly blamed our three baby boomer presidents not china

 

The problem is your premise. The future prospects for the U.S. prosperity have never been brighter.

 

The only quibble I would have with your post is that you said that corporations were forced to offshore their operations.

"The business of America is business" and with lobbyists out the ying-yang in DC I don't believe that corporations were "forced". What happened here was the result of deliberate actions on the part of our government and corporations.

 

Heh, if it's at all a question that requires deep pondering, then just cut to the chase and ally with China.

 

When cheap chinese stuff was allowed into the US market without tariffs that fored US companies to go offshore

 

Yes our relationship with China is indeed Schizophrenic business/political but for good reason, let's face it there's only one thing more scary than the Hong Kong Triads and that's the Chinese communist party lol. Seriously China has come a long way in a very short time but don't mistakenly assume they are a free society, not as we know it in Australia. 3 year jail term for disrespecting their national anthem, communist party visiting & threatening family members of Chinese students in Australia, continued persecution of human rights activists.

Even if you ignore the differences in our society China is bullying its neighbours in the South China Seas, the Australian government is taking a lot of fire for standing up and voicing their concerns. They are forging closer ties with Japan, Indonesia and our other neighbours, (some of them involved in the South China Seas dispute) to form an Asian alliance strong enough to stand up to China.

It's a love hate relationship, the majority of our migrants are from China 20%, here where I live they are buying property at an astonishing rate. 30% of our Exports go to China. In general the Australians get on very well with the Chinese. Personally I had a Chinese student stay a couple of years ago, a lovely and very polite young man, a fantastic experience and opportunity for my children.

China like the US is using its power to buy influence... the problem is Australia is already bought and paid for by the US. There's been the scandal in "donations" buying our politicians, and very recently causing a rift between Australia and the Pacific Islands (they accused Australia of being arrogant towards the Pacific Islands and I think they are indeed correct)

‘China scare’ shows Australia has ‘dropped the ball’ in the Pacific

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2018/01/15/china-australia-pacific-economies/

Australia's relationship with the US obviously bother's China as we effectively help extend the US's reach into the Asia Pacific (The US's Pine Gap Surveillance facility in Australia). We are a small country and need the US, let's not pretend otherwise. Our relationship with the US longstanding, weathered and we trust it, it would be foolish for Australia on a national security level to do anything to harm our relationship with the US... and so we continue to walk the tightrope between Washington and Beijing at the same time also cling to our independence as much as we possibly can being caught between two superpowers.

 

You mean like withdrewing from the TPP which is what is bringing on the issue discussed in the OP.

 

And you source for that bit of optimistic thinking is?