[B]Does God play dice with the universe ?[/B]

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by RevAnarchist, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    9,848
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmm' Why doesnt the cap tabs work in the title section?

    This time instead of a long and short version, I think the paragraph in blue will be enough information understand the thrust of this thread and make comment. However again if making a critical assessment please read the entire thing to save time by answering questions where the answer is already covered in the thread. Thanks ~

    Main body of Thread;

    That title is from a quote of Albert Einstein’s where he was suggesting that Quantum Mechanics, specifically would eventually turn out to be faulty. Specifically he was speaking about the uncertainty principle and being super specific he was criticizing Heisenberg and Bohr had not fully understood certain aspects of causality as related by the Copenhagen interpretation.

    Anyway, the question/talking point of this thread is more about theology than physics. Did God have to create the universe to operate on physical laws? Did he purposely create the universe with seemingly bad engineering and mistakes for reasons we are not privy to? Or did he create the universe to be perfect and man and Satan muck up the works later? Why not a perfect universe where everyone is happy? Or? Please elaborate.

    Personally I feel the universe is not ‘perfect’ but was created with what our limited fallible human senses tell us are imperfections. These imperfections are necessary maybe even mandatory to produce a universe that produces the question god asks and only we can answer. Mans free will and sentiency is anagogic to God throwing the dice in a high stakes game with the pot being either eternal life of the earth and the soul and craps being Armageddon and the death of the soul and possibly the universe.

    Reva
     
  2. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0

    the universe is what god is: our creator

    Morons created something to worship!
     
  3. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who or what created God?
     
  4. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    7,656
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    People created such gods as there are
     
  5. Beast Mode

    Beast Mode New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,106
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So God created the universe, the universe created people, and people created God?

    Now if that ain't a holy trinity Penrose triangle then I don't know what is. :blankstare:
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,177
    Likes Received:
    27,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "Does God play dice" does not refer to a theos, a "he" acting as a creative mind.
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,177
    Likes Received:
    27,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Each step is a huge step downward, too. :D
     
  8. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,115
    Likes Received:
    7,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Adding God to the equation simply adds an extra step. God created the Universe, but then who created God? You can't tell us that God has always existed and expect that to suffice if we're not allowed to say that the Universe, or the matter that created it, always existed. Two sides of the same coin really, except with the God idea, people are trying to add a very human element of intent to the whole thing.
     
  9. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,177
    Likes Received:
    27,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    God is human imagination. I don't get why this character even garners serious discussion. It's unschooled thinking, the imaginings of ancients who believed in spirits because they didn't know how life and consciousness actually functioned.
     
  10. NCstudent

    NCstudent New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    well, if I were a god, who was trying to find the answer to a question only man can answer, then i would intentionally create imperfections, so as to discern the parameters of the question. like an experiment.
    if i were attempting to teach some lesson to humanity, i guess i would create woes and misery, mainly because they build character. also because humans tend to only learn something the hard way.
     
  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,177
    Likes Received:
    27,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So many assumptions here, e.g. that humans had to be 'created' in such a manner that we even needed adversity in order to 'build character.' You can sit there and invent explanations til the cows come home, but in the end it's all just your imaginings. Where are the facts to support any of it?

    I recently heard it asked, What is the point of existence if there is no afterlife? This is a flawed question, of course, as it begs the question of existence having a "point" at all. Who says it needs one? We're here because nature brought us about, individually because our parents did what came naturally and we resulted. All else is superstition and BS.
     
  12. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,115
    Likes Received:
    7,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When people ask "Why are we here?", I always say "Because you were born. The rest is up to you."
     
  13. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Who created people?
     
  14. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you were God you could have created beings that wouldn't have those flaws. But since God intentionally created flawed creatures he must take delight in screwing with them for his own enjoyment. Heck, he couldn't even make perfect angels to keep him company in his big house in the sky. He loves conflict and drama.
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Apes created people.
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,177
    Likes Received:
    27,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There ya go. People often assume there's a point or purpose to our existence, but who says there has to be? It seems they just can't stand the universe not being built specifically for them by something that will reward them with eternal life for being "good" by some arbitrary measure.
     
  18. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Who created apes?
     
  19. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,826
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My belief on Einstein's famous quote is that he was criticizing quantum physics and Heisenburg in this way: Uncertainty theory states that we cannot know both the trajectory and the location of subatomic particles, and consequently, quantum physics is approached with the mathematics of probability. Though this is the best we can do, because our observation alters the result, I believe that Einstein was trying to say that particles do indeed have a specific trajectory AND location, known to "God", and though WE cannot know them both to complete exactitude, it does not mean that they exist in a state of limbo, in just a probability of where they might be. They are where they are, in the trajectory that they are in, and our inability to perceive that does not mean that God has the entire quantum world in a state of probability. The "dice" are just our perception.
     
  20. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Starfish created apes. Starfish don't have brains which is why their creations turned out so poorly.
     
  21. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0

    any willie wankin' mandrills in our lineage?

    [video=youtube;wjpdmatA5WY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjpdmatA5WY[/video]
     
  22. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,115
    Likes Received:
    7,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think that we ever thought that they existed in any kind of "limbo" that way either(I could be wrong here), just that our ability to observe them will never escape those conditions. That's my understanding of Heisenburg. The particles exist with both trajectory and location, but our attempts at observation will always limit us to observing one. So it's really not God playing dice at all, but us.

    I fully admit the possibility that my understanding here is wrong though. :) It's early and the coffee isn't done yet.
     

Share This Page