Best argument FOR God that you've heard....

You don't know me, so you can't know my sin.
All you can do is guess, based on your belief system, which we have established, may or may not be the correct god. Or it could be the correct god, but the wrong way of believing to what that god wants.

So until it is established what the correct God is, and what rules to follow when believing such a thing, we're right back at which God? The right one, wrong one, more than 1, less than 1.

My God doesn't have sinners. It loves all its creations the same. No judgements made. All are treated as equals in the after world.

 

So God created us out of himself yet you think we are so different from the rest of the universe?

 

That is an interesting idea I have never considered.

 

I never said sin

SN is what i said. Screen name

I don't know what a correct GOD is.

It hints one can be GOD and at the same time fake.

Church teaching is this way.

Rather than me cut and paste, why not post the link and those who are interested can get an idea of the church.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/the-privilege-of-holding-the-priesthood?lang=eng

 

OK, missed the sn.

No, one god can't be real and fake. Well I suppose, since no one really knows what God is.
But, I mean, the real God, if such a thing exists, and all other Gods followed are fake. You know, 1/2 the world that doesn't follow this Abrahamic God.
And for those that follow the same Abrahamic God, Christians(mormons) Jews, Muslims. All have a different view of what God wants mankind to be and do and believe.

Church(s) are 1000s of them. They all teach something different. Which church is teaching the right way. What happens if one belongs to a different church?

 

I asked what's the best argument you've heard and not the best argument. its an opinion piece. am i to understand you've heard no good arguments for the existence of God? You're in rare company there.

 

Who or what are you including in this "one consciousness?" Are rocks and trees in there too?

 

This isnt a horrible argument if you refine it ala William Lane Craig. But it takes some skill to really deliver it. I am not William Lane Craig

 

That's evidence of what? I have no doubt a renowned (in his time) Jewish preacher named Jesus existed. That's no evidence of anything else.

 

Funny, how only the negative thing about religion is touted...the opiate of the masses. While there are many other positive attributes coming from religion...yet the opiate idea is what is used.

Reality is filled with opiates for the masses. Political tribalism, for instance. Smart phones. Entertainment. Sex. Perhaps we should discard all of these opiates as well, since an opiate is addicting. But yet, it is only religion that gets called out as being an opiate. Perhaps because some people do not like religion, but love all of the other opiates. See what is going on here? LOL

To me the best argument for something outside the universe, a creator comes from the universe itself, from single cell life, all the way up to galaxies and the order needed to arrive at it. My mind will not accept chance, randomness, with time, yielding the totality of the universe. Hard to think the order needed, from the smallest to the largest, just happened by a huge number of random, pure chance, events. That is not the simplest explanation, and to me requires a greater belief than the belief in some kind of creative force.

 

For someone who started their post with the boisterous claim of, " having read the bible twice, so I would know what was there", you have a very simple view of christ and the sacrifice he made and believed he was making. Jesus absolutely was a "blood sacrifice"...as you say. And I don't know of any practicing christian who doesn't understand or feel the need for salvation. And as far as the replacing of " a very personal thing" with belief in his death and resurrection well, how personal is that? And seeking is a very large part of christianity....seeking to draw closer to him....seeking to pacify your own nasty thoughts and deeds....and seeking to better understand your fellow human being thru what christ did on the cross. People of no-faith always characterize those who believe as simple minded sheep. You are being the simpleton here and your interpretation of what is in the bible is very simplistic and trite. It seems more like an attack on Pauline tradition than anything else.

 

Assorted prophets and preachers were fairly common in Israel for centuries, so what do you think it was about JC that made him so special?

 

Let's ignore church of all types for the moment.

Let's look at what we can see, what we believe is known, etc.

We know there are mountains. Not much controversy over that. We know we have massive seas over the Earth. Very simple even if one never saw any sea. I expect a huge block of humanity accepts oceans though they never saw an ocean.

We have people living globally in deserts. They never saw a lake. But would they be correct to claim there are no lakes because they never saw a lake?

In their personal experience, it is entirely true that they never saw any lakes and can be justified to deny lakes exist. Based only on what they saw in life.

I think it takes a person who has some gift to visualize Earth and the universe being created by GOD.

No, not a god that gave you orders known as the 10 commandments. I am not denying GOD did that. I am saying that there are things I need not see to accept.

I believed in the Great lakes long before I saw Lake Ontario. I am positive it exists. I have a couple rocks from it's shore that surprised me. I don't know why, I expected sand on the beach. But there are those rounded rocks.

So why am I adamant there is GOD

Easy, peasy.

The universe. i see tht with my own eyes. I do not accvepty an eternity of the universe. For all i know, Universes come and go. I love gazing at photos taken by Hubble. I see vast arrays of not only objects, but colors.

It makes no sense to me that a body of nothing became a body of something. I describe GOD as awesome power. Notice I did not say man. The Bible says he created us in his image. Jesus shows up and sure enough as a man.

Does this prove GOD is a man? No, but what theory works better than GOD created us in his image. For me, that was a great idea.

 

Was he? The disciples made him special by elevating him to divinity. Apart from some interpolations by the disciples, most of what he preached was Jewish, to Jews. Most of his life,that we know of, was regulated by Judaism. Not of the Pharisaic teaching, but Mosaic teaching, with compassion.
His baptism, supposed temptation and other acts were in line with Jewish teaching. He was the evangelist of his day. We only have two nonsensica, contradictory stories of his birth using unrelated Jewish Scriptures and also ignoring the Roman laws of the time. We have contradictory reports at the end of his life.
We don't know for sure when he was born - and therefore when he actually died. Without that knowledge we don't know the truth about the betrayal, trial and crucifixion. In fact, if you study the Bible against the times, there's a lot we don't know. And what the Bible tells us is, at best, questionable.

Now I'm off to bed. Down there you are a few minutes behind me in Lincolnshire.

 

I thought his 37 miracles elevated him to superstardom?
I like Lincolnshire, I did cycle-camping trips all over it in my cycling glory days and even had a UFO close encounter near Spalding which gives me bragging rights for life..

 

And they were all amazed, so that they questioned among themselves, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey him.” Mk 1:27

Jesus certainly brought, "new," things with him in his teachings. Here is a small clue.

 

Jesus, in many instances, puts himself on an even footing with God the Father. Why do you suppose all those Jews were so angry with him? If you're suggesting that the divinity of Jesus is an idea the Apostles came up with then you are simply mistaken. And Jesus was a practicing Jew but also had many new and sometimes contrary things to say about Judaism and it's straying from God. I don't know what you mean when you say that, " his baptism, supposed temptation and other acts were in line with Jewish teaching." Are you suggesting that Jews were taught about Jesus before his advent? What do you mean by, "Jewish teaching"?

 

As I explained, I have not heard a "best" argument. All deductive arguments I have encountered were either unsound and/or invalid. All inductive arguments I have encountered contained fallacies and/or incorrect factual premises. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

whats your definition of a deistic god?

- - - Updated - - -

For the sake of charity.....tell me a horrible argument you've heard. give me a real whopper.

 

something like this

http://www.tfd.com/deists

de·ism (dzm, d-)
n.
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

 

Okay. That's my understanding of it. It's an interesting thought. This would be closer to Jefferson's God, I believe. The problem is I naturally imagine the God of the Bible only as a deistic type God. I do find the idea fascinating, tho.

 

So does the fact that there is usually only one powerball winner mean that only one person out of all society actually chooses God?

 

If you mean the best arguement for believing in God it is there is no actual downside unless of course you believe all the silly nonsense that religions claim to be the behaviors that God demands of it's followers.

 

They may believe there is no lake, but a simple trip or a picture will show them there are actually lake, rivers, seas, and oceans.

There may or may not be a god. One can't simple take a trip or have a picture given to them of this god or any god.
And if there is a god, it almost certainly isn't the one you or the next guy has as a picture of a god in your mind. And most likely doesn't act like the books written.

It makes no sense something came from nothing? No one says the universe came from nothing. No one knows, yet, what was before the universe. TBB theory starts at the point of the bang. Not what was before.
And you have no problem of something always having existed? And it has to be this being that you worship? It can be an near infinite possible other things.

 

Technically Jesus put himself on nothing.
He never wrote a single word.
All written is by someone else.
And I don't think ever put himself on even footing with God. Always refers to god as a greater being.