Beto O’Rourke Not Sure the Constitution Still Works

Almost every pension fund of companies have an assortment of stocks and bonds. Your 401 is mostly composed of stocks and bonds. When you hear of some guy manages a stock or Bond fund worth millions, it is not his wealth, but the wealth of all the people in the fund. I receive a pension from a large defense contractor and a large grocery chain. I also receive Social Security. These have all been funded by stocks and Bonds. Without these retirement checks I would have had to sell my home years ago and downsize my standard of living.

Class envy is like a cancer in some peoples souls. Most sport figures make more in one year than what I make in 20 years. Do I sit in front of my TV and rave on about what some player makes. Hell no! I'm rooting right along that he get's that hit, catches that pass, scores that goal, etc. So why should I be envious of some CEO that runs a business and employs me, my kids, my neighbors and helps my community?

 

That's not a failure of the Constitution and the Constitution guaranties were are not a Democracy. The States elect the President.

 

It authorized him to use the full force of the United States military to remove Saddam and his government and included all WMD'S. But feel free to cite thae parts that said we dont really mean it. Hillary was an unequivocal supporter of doing just that.

 

Yes, you're right. But that needs to change. When the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, the vast majority of Americans were uneducated, and a large percentage couldn't write. Today, most Americans graduate from high school (or GED), and 25% of them have college degrees. We're better informed than when the Constitution was written to protect us from democracy. In spite of the Trump fiasco, I believe democracy is a better way to go than staying with the Electoral College. I support eliminating it, if not entirely, then at least for Presidential elections.

 

"Democracy" was never mentioned in either the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, nor the Articles of Confederation. However..... Republican form of government was mentioned.

 

No it doesn't and it's not going to.

Is that what they REALLY taught you in school as to the purpose of the Electoral College? Did you not learn about The Great Compromise? It is one of things that makes the Constitution the wonderful creation it was and what has made our country great all these years. The most successful in the history of the world. And you want to change that to make us more like the lessor successful countries?

I think you grossly underestimate the citizens of our new born country and it's a particularly unwarranted diss of them. In fact I would postulation that the generations our schools are producing today are LESS educated than the citizens of that time in math, equivalent science and history and reading and writing and grammar.

Ahhh for what else is the Electoral College used? And again the founding fathers guarantied we are not a Democracy. We are a Federal Republic of STATES. The President is supposed to represent the entire country all the states not just the few big ones, the Electoral College was and is a wonderful solution to that. The Constitution has three entities, the United States, the federal government, the States and the People. The Electoral College is the compromise between the STATES who elect the President and the apportionment of the citizens in those states giving states with more people more votes to reflect that. The 2017 election worked just as it Constitutionally was suppose to work. The 20 States and DC didn't elect the President over the 30 other States in fact about 4 states didn't elect the President over the 47 others.

 

I have gradually become cognizant of the fact that a Republic is a hybrid government designed to limit democracy and keep political controls in the hands of the wealthy elitists of society at the expense of everyone else. That's EXACTLY what we have here in America, and the elections of GW & Trump both illustrate that fact. There are several highly successful democracies functioning in the world, and I question why America isn't one of them.

 

..And the others as well as members of the House and Senate become millionaires at the expense of the people who actually work for a living. Isn't Corporate America a fantastic place to live? Corporations are defined in law as "persons" but they are persons without the right to vote.... HOWEVER... who needs to vote when you have enough money to purchase the various Senators and Representatives and make millions or billions just by having them on your payroll.

 

Well no it didn't authorize the removal of Saddam or his government. Can you not actually read?

 

Don't play the stupid class envy game with me. Over 80% of all stocks are owned by the top 10% of the population. That is just a fact.

 

I'm not supporting Beto in this question, but I ask, what is wrong with questioning the Constitution? I'm not saying change or abolish, but shouldn't a thinking population consider a document written in different times by people who could not imagine the world as it exists today?

 

Which ones are you talking about? And no you do not realize why our government is organized as it is. The founding fathers learned from history too and that is that Democracies fail. They created a society and government that has given more freedom and liberty to more people that has ever existed. It is also a system that even you can run for office and hold any number of offices including President.

And for what else is the Electoral College used?

 

I just have to say... after seeing Robert Francis wearing a sheep costume onesy singing coffeeshop punk music, that's really all you ever have to see about this guy.



Of course he doesn't understand the constitution. The sheep onesy won't allow it....

 

Beto is saying it doesn't work anymore. What system works better? The founding fathers make it very difficult to change for a reason, so it would not be subject to willy-nilly politicians like a Beto.

But here's an example, it was changed so that Senator would be elected by the citizens of the individual states. The original purpose of have the state legislatures select the state's Senator was that the Senator represent the states. They stood in the way of populist movements to have the government hand out things and act politically to the whims of the voters and prevent the federal government from grabbing more control over the states. Let's repeal that and go back to as the Constitution was envisioned with the Senate NOT being a political body but a deliberative body.

 

You just showed class envy. No one is preventing your from investing in stocks and building wealth. Not one person in that top 10%. What exactly do you put your retirement savings into for your retirement?

 

Sorry but it isn't class envy. Just facts. And I am well above the top 10% in net worth with over a million in the stock market and about equal overseas and in bonds.

So try not to make stupud judgements about other people based on yourself. Not eveyone who favors a better distribution of opportunity and wealth does it out of class envy. Some people actually just care.

 

Cool. So you'll be donating your savings? I mean, afterall, it's because you care. Right?

 

Not that moronic meme again. No I pay my taxes, support my family, loan and give money to friends and worthwhile causes and work for a better America. What do you do other than make silly posts?

 

So, your answer is no? You won't be donating your savings in an effort to otherwise reduce income inequality? But, you suggest that being a "member" of the tax paying community is sufficient because, you said so, and then assert things that clearly cannot be validated as evidence of your caring. Sweet. And then, because somehow this is a competition, you require my efforts to justify the ones you participate it? That's rich..

The obvious answer is: far more than you. Now, prove that isn't the case.. This seems to be the level of your current conversation. The topic, however was why you want to engage in class envy. I don't see how that description has been mitigated by you yet. I would point out that we have millions of new millionaires in this country alone. Seems that effort develops wealth. What seems to continue to be your issue with that?

 

Effort develops wealth sometimes but it is hardly the only factor. However the strongest predictor of the class you will end up in is the class you were born into. That is a fact. Also a fact that class mobility is declining in America.

 

Although the Electoral College has only one purpose, to elect a President, it is closely tied to the apportionment of members of Congress to states. It is outdated for several reasons, but in my view mainly because it gives states themselves the final say in the election of the President, bypassing & ignoring the will of the majority voters. The founding fathers designed it to do so because in their time, most Americans regarded their state as their country rather than the United States as a whole. The Civil War (1861-1865) became the first major event to begin changing that. World War 1 probably finished it, making the vast majority of Americans regard the United States as a whole, their personal "country." Since then, the purpose of the Electoral College has been negated, and the whole system unnecessary--even harmful. Between 1788 & 1999, two Presidents were elected thru the Electoral College who garnered fewer votes than their opponent. That's two Presidents in 211 years. Since 1999, both Republican Presidents who were elected, won thru the Electoral College in spite of earning fewer actual votes from the voters. That's two Presidents in 16 years. In a democracy, candidates who win the majority of votes, wins. Americans have been taught to believe we are a democracy. But we're not. In 2016, about 3 million more Americans voted for Hillary than voted for Trump, yet Trump sits in the White House. The President (& Vice President) are the only politicians who are elected to represent the entire nation--every state. All other politicians represent only a state or a portion of that state--not the entire nation. Every voter in our nation should have a vote that has equal value, no matter where they reside. But the Electoral College gives states with smaller populations more weight with their votes, thus cancelling out millions of votes cast for that national leader. Since its inception, it has made no sense to democratic nations looking on during our elections. Today, it makes no sense to many of us Americans. We need to make our election of President a democratic one, rather than continuing with this democratic farce of a system. I vote we discard the Electoral College immediately--before the 2020 election.

 

OK so what, you said there were other purposes for the Electoral College. There is only one purpose, it is the vehicle we use for the STATES to elect the President and Vice-President. And it is the body the founding fathers created to balance the voice of the apportionment of the People and the States. The States have an interest in the operation the federal government and the powers it exerts. There are Stated interest in our government. We lost a lot of that with the 17th Amendment which should be repealed so that the Federal Government, the United States, does not has as much power over the States. That the States have a specific and unique voice.

You do realize the Constitution does not even say the President shall be elected by the People and that the only reason you even get to vote for the Electors to the Electoral College is at the good graces of your state legislature. The Constitution grants the power of deciding how you state electors are selected to your state legislature. It doesn't have to be by a vote of the citizens of that state. The state legislature could choose who would be the electors and how they would vote and the people of your state would have no recourse other than to vote those state legislators out the next election. You could take it to the SCOTUS and they would rule for the state legislators.

That doesn't change the purpose of the Electoral College which is still entirely in effect. It serves it's purpose today as it did from the beginning. It was one of the three great compromises in the Constitution. To balance the general power of the People and the States in the federal government. The purpose remains today.

Interesting trivia for political buffs but so what?

In which state or in DC? There were 51 entirely separate and unique elections. The was no national vote. Had we all vote in one national vote not only would the campaign to win the office would be entirely different the voting patterns would be different. To tally up all those individual votes that took place and assert that would be the same result had there just been one national vote is statistical folly.

Yes he won the Presidency. He won 30 states to 21, a 2 to 1 victory.

Correct that is why the STATES elect them and not the PEOPLE.

Exactly and they are elected by their State. Of course as the Constitution was written the State legislature choose the two Senators each State is given.

They do. Your vote has equal value in every election that happens in YOUR state. There are NO federal elections. ALL elections are State matters. Not one citizen who has ever existed in this country has ever voted in a national vote, a national election. Not one officier, not one law has ever been voted on in a national election. We are NOT a Democracy and the Founding Fathers had to GUARANTY would we never be a Democracy to even get the States to ratify the Constitution.[/QUOTE]

 

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You write an eloquent summary of both the will of the founding fathers & the Constitutional system they left us. My point remains that the reality they dealt with in 1788, and the reality of America today, are quite different, and the Constitution as written, no longer fits as well with today's society. During the 18th century, states were considered independent countries by their citizens. Today that's not the case. Today, we all regard ourselves as citizens of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA--not the particular state we reside in. I personally have lived for an extended time in nine states. I regard none of them as my "country." Having states elect our President is no longer as functional as it was in the 18th century. We need to create a national election by the people & eliminate the Electoral College.

 

You write an eloquent summary of both the will of the founding fathers & the Constitutional system they left us. My point remains that the reality they dealt with in 1788, and the reality of America today, are quite different, and the Constitution as written, no longer fits as well with today's society. During the 18th century, states were considered independent countries by their citizens. Today that's not the case. Today, we all regard ourselves as citizens of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA--not the particular state we reside in. I personally have lived for an extended time in nine states. I regard none of them as my "country." Having states elect our President is no longer as functional as it was in the 18th century. We need to create a national election by the people & eliminate the Electoral College.[/QUOTE]

They were considered their states as they are now. Did States have more power then, yes and as I explained we should move back to that. And yes we consider ourselves citizens of the United STATES of America and we still speak through our STATES and our STATES still have interest which effect us citizens of those STATES. That has not changed. I don't care what the citizens in the state of California what to do in their state, nor Ohio or Iowa or New York or any other state on their state and local matters. I don't want them telling my state what we must do. And guess what, you are not going to get 2/3's of the Congress and 3/4's of the States to change that balance the Founding Fathers established. It works just fine and as intended.

 

Which simply sounds like whining. Discount effort and suddenly your not as competitive... alert the media... LOL