Bikers descend on Sturgis rally with few signs of pandemic

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by CenterField, Aug 8, 2020.

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  1. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    How did Bush do? He damn neared destroyed it

    How has Trump done?
     
  2. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks to Mother Nature and a certain group of engineers modifying virus for gain of function. :banana:
     
  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Donor

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    I dunno, man ... based on what we see in pics and videos, that description seems to fit.
     
  4. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Nope...but his minions would be wearing them proudly
     
  5. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let's just say that I wouldn't want to be forced into a decision where my choice is risking illness due to virus or risking the lives of my family & my employee's and their families, due to lack of food and shelter. Not every small business owner has the kind of money to be able to afford that.

    My husband and I are very fortunate to have jobs that allow us to work from home. I've been working from home for almost 20 years, and he's been working from home on and off for the last 15. He's been full time WAH since March, and probably won't be called back to the office until Spring, 2021. It's easy for me to sit here and judge people who have literally lost their entire income and say they should sit out their biggest money maker for the entire year. I would scramble to come up with something, even if it meant hiring more people who can work very few hours/week, requiring temperature checks, masks, distancing, reducing capacity, increasing air circulation, or whatever else.

    I respect your call, and understand it completely. It's just not so cut and dried for me.
     
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  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    So? Maybe there are people out there who wish to enjoy life rather than fear monger over a mild virus.

    What "pandemic"? The infections and deaths of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the populace is not a pandemic... It is simply fear mongering.

    I think it's a great decision. Enjoy life a little bit... stop fear mongering over a mild virus... That's what I think.
     
  7. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    "Pandemic refers to an epidemic that has spread over several countries or continents, usually affecting a large number of people."
    https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section11.html

    "The coronavirus outbreak has been labelled a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO).
    It is a term that the organisation had refrained from using before now." (March)
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51358459

    "We’re in a terrifying and confusing pandemic, with new and sometimes conflicting information about COVID-19 emerging all the time. In the early days, a lot of public health advice was based on what we knew about previous disease outbreaks. But this new coronavirus behaves in unexpected ways, and it’s hard to keep up. What’s more, people tend to remember the first things they learn about a new subject, a phenomenon called "anchoring bias," and it’s psychologically challenging to replace old information with new knowledge. Here are nine of the most important things we’ve learned about SARS-CoV-2 in the past seven months and why we didn’t fully understand or appreciate them at first."
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...earned-about-the-coronavirus-pandemic-so-far/
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  8. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    "Protesters" are "immune" to the virus, remember?? ;)

    https://politiplex.freeforums.net/thread/68/cult-mask
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  9. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pro-choice. People shouldn't be forced to wear them. People should be able to make their own health care decisions.
     
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  10. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    What "epidemic"? A fraction of a fraction of a percent of the populace is not an epidemic, nor is it a "large number of people". It is not even a situation.

    The WHO is full of shizzit.

    What "pandemic"?

    No it doesn't; it behaves much like the common flu behaves.

    Scientific American dismissed on sight. You cannot use them as a source with me.
     
  11. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nick Cordero. 41 years old. Extremely healthy and fit. Broadway singer and actor. Got COVID-19. Battled it for 13 weeks. Due to the SARS-CoV-2's predilection for causing endothelial lesions (something the influenza virus doesn't do) Mr. Cordero had blot clots that took entirely over one of his legs, which had to be amputated. The virus inflamed his heart (myocardits) and disrupted its rhythm nodes so his heart stopped beating. He had to have a pacemaker implanted. Then the endothelial lesions got his kidneys, causing acute renal failure. Both kidneys stopped working. He had to go into renal dialysis. He started to recover (minus one leg, two kidneys, and one heart-beating mechanism) and his beautiful wife got hopeful, holding in her arms their baby son. Unfortunately, Mr. Cordero developed severe lung fibrosis which got worse and worse and he could no longer oxygenate his blood. 13 weeks after this ordearl, Mr. Cordero passed away.

    Good luck finding a case of the common flu evolving this way (by the way it's not the common flu. You're mixing up common cold and seasonal flu, two vastly different diseases caused by different viruses; but anyway, I guess you mean the seasonal flu). Show me one. Because I can show you many more who went just like Mr. Cordero's case. You can't show me a single case of the influenza virus causing this much multi-organ damage.

    Oh, you may think it's anecdotal, right? Well, think again. Look at this study:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

    78% of patients who survived COVID-19 showed up with heart damage. 60% had no previous heart condition. 67% of these patients had mild cases of COVID-19 that didn't even require hospitalizaton; didn't stop them from having the heart damage. Please kindly show me 78% of people with the common flu coming out of it with heart damage.

    We are just now beginning to understand the multiple consequences the SARS-CoV-2 causes in some of its hosts. It's becoming clearer and clearer that even people with mild and asymptomatic cases can still get some nasty sequelae down the road (unlike the flu). My brother is an example. He had an asymptomatic case of COVID-19. Never even realized he had it. One week after he was tested positive, and with no other symptom whatsoever, he had a devastating stroke, which is something we're seeing more and more (people recovering from the acute phase of COVID-19 but then having strokes, due to the hyper-coagulability state from the hallmark endothelial lesion.

    Nowadays we understand the influenza virus as one that attacks the respiratory system. We understand the SARS-CoV-2 as one that attacks the endothelium. Vastly different diseases.

    I hope for your sake that you and your loved ones don't catch this "common flu" as you put it.

    Now, think of this. The CDC has calculated the average of flu deaths over the last 31 years, by day. The highest average was 64 deaths in one day. The SARS-CoV-2 had at peak 2,749 deaths on April 21st.

    Now put on one hand, your left hand, this number, 64. Put on hour right hand this number, 2,749. Weigh them a bit. Move your hands up and down a little, feel the weight. Compare.

    Come again, these viruses behave similarly? Oh wow!
     
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  12. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Very rare and extreme cases are not the norm. Most people recover from COVID-19 with no issues. For most people, COVID-19 is a mild flu.

    I interchange common flu and seasonal/annual flu... I'm referring to the same thing regardless of which specific words I happen to use at any particular time. I'm not talking about the common cold.

    Influenza can lead to multi-organ failure such as that as well... This is nothing special about COVID-19...

    Fear mongering. Organs heal. BS numbers...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  13. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    OMG that's horrifying!!!
     
  14. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Unless they have lodging for 500K in this town of 7K, my guess is most people will be sleeping in tents and such which is better than hotels as far as reducing exposure. That area is so going to smell like pee though.
     
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  15. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    It smells like pee everywhere, every year. The tents aren't the issue. It's all the hanging out inside venues that will be the problem. Outside is supremely preferable to inside. It's not perfect, but it's extremely better than them being in a convention center for 10 days together.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  16. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I would assume they are going to mostly be riding around since there can't be much else to do in a town that small.
     
  17. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I’d think drinking is the go at this sort of function.
     
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  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure, "most"people come out OK... But it's not the whole story. First of all because the "most"who recover from the seasonal flu are much more numerous, given that its IFR is 0.1% while the COVID-19's is 0.65% to 1%, that is, 6.5 to 10 times more. And then, pretty much once you recover from the flu, it is for the overwhelming majority of people, like 99%, an inconvenient little period of 4 to 7 days that goes away with NO consequence whatsoever. COVID-19, though, in many cases, which I estimate at least at 5% if not more (given the apparent high prevalent of heart damage), leaves behind sequelae such as pulmonary fibrosis, kidney insufficiency, strokes, cognitive damage, a weakened heart muscle, and a propensity for coagulation, just for starters (more damage is being understood every day). In all aspects the illness is more severe, with longer time to recovery, bigger hospitalization rate, bigger rate of need for UCU, bigger rate of need for ventilation.

    Good for you but it is helpful to use the right terminology when debating an issue.

    Well, I see that you haven't shown examples... please do, and let us know about the frequency of this multi-organ failure you're seeing with the flu. Pray tell, how many cases of seasonal flu have endothelial lesions? This *is* extremely unique of the SARS-CoV-2. It didn't happen with MERS, with the first SARS, and it doesn't happen with the flu. This is why the first few cases, we made grave mistakes in treatment because we assumed we were seeing another ARDS like in the first SARS and MERS, and we went for early ventilation... but then, oops, realized that those lungs were reacting differently, and the invasive ventilation was multiplying the different pulmonary lesions caused by the endothelial damage, so patients were dying in the ICU at 90% rates. So Pulmonary and Critical Care specialists realized that they were facing a different illness, not similar to MERS, SARS, and severe viral pneumonia in bad cases of the flu. as you can see if you consult the last pages with the full explanation of the unique characteristics of this, in this treatment protocol:

    https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...cine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

    See, the thrombophilia, clotting, immune dysregulation with macrophage-activation syndrome and cytokine storm are not how the flu goes... Read here:

    OK, so, the learned doctors who are looking into this, see ENORMOUS differences (what do you supposed they mean by saying that it does this and that, as compared to ALL OTHER respiratory viruses which do not???), but gfm7175 without any substantiation, say it's BS and say it's all the same as the flu... sorry, but I'll go with these learned doctors, rather than with your opinion.

    They say, and I quote from the protocol:

    You say, and I quote from you:

    Sure, a tiny tiny tiny minority of patients with the flu die, the mechanism being viral pneumonia and superimposed bacterial infections. Ultimately if you are very close to die your organs shut down, sure. But this prolonged and systematic multi-organ attack, days and weeks-long, seen from the widely diffuse endothelial lesions caused by the SARS-CoV-2 *is* quite unique.

    Looking at reality is not fear mongering (it's just not sticking one's head in the sand). This is a nasty and vicious disease and in population terms, the damage it provokes is several times higher than the flu's (0.65% to 1% of death plus at least 5% of very serious and permanent consequences, versus 0.1% of death with 0.9% of serious consequences); if you plot 6% of a population with death or serious damage to the entire population of 331 million (as coronaviruses are more infectious than influenza viruses and if left unchecked have the potential to run around the entire population - as shown by the coronavirus-caused portion of the common cold - the number are huge.

    Organs heal... sometimes. Good luck healing permanent lung fibrosis, permanent kidney failure, permanently damaged hearts. You probably did not read the article I linked to; the researchers worry about heart failure down the road. Oh, BS numbers, you say. Care to contest what these researchers saw? I mean, there isn't anything more objective than cardiac MRI and troponin levels... you call it BS? Sorry, but I'll go with what these learned German doctors are seeing, rather than with your unsubstantiated opinion.

    Why do you suppose health officials everywhere reacted so strongly against this? As in, the entire world? Because they concluded it is just a little flu??? Sure, pal...
     
  19. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No true.

    People spouting these baseless claims are in deep denial, and are able to cause much harm to innocent people.
     
  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it's kind of mind-boggling that with all the mounting evidence to the contrary, there are still people who yell "it's just like the flu!" The level of misinformation that this would entail is such, that I don't believe that otherwise reasonably intelligent people would say so, if not for the sheer denial.

    I liked a post I saw earlier (forgot who the poster was) that highlighted how ultimately scared people are that this virus so profoundly changed American society and economy (like it did everywhere in the world) and the shock and awe is being psychologically dealt with, through the defense mechanism of denial. "Nah nah nah this is not happening it's a hoax it's just the MSM, it's just political, this virus is not a threat, it's like the seasonal flu!!!"

    INVARIABLY when it then maims and kills a loved one, you see people flocking to Facebook and Instagram and Twitter saying "oh my God, this is serious after all; I was dismissing it; people need to take it seriously."

    Uh, duh! Wake up, people. Come back to Earth. This *is* obviously serious. There is no need to panic but denial is not helpful. What needs to happen, is wise and prudent precautions until we get a vaccine, which I firmly believe is coming.
     
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  21. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    The mental gymnastics they do must be exhausting. You are quite right, though.

    Did you catch the bit where Chuck Woolery was tweeting constantly about how much of a hoax it is? Then his son got it, and he took down his Twitter account.

    I'm not sure why the Diamond Princess wasn't a good enough warning. It was an excellent example of viral load coming into play. I was on a cruise forum discussing that isolation. People were screaming, "GET THEM OFF THE SHIP!" because more and more people were getting sick. That really should have been enough proof for the entire world that being close to people is a very bad idea.

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate

    As of February 20, tests of most of the 3,711 people aboard the Diamond Princess confirmed that 634, or 17 percent, had the virus; 328 of them did not have symptoms at the time of diagnosis. Of those with symptoms, the fatality ratio was 1.9 percent, Russell and colleagues calculate. Of all infected, that ratio was 0.91 percent. Those 70 and older were most vulnerable, with an overall fatality ratio of about 7.3 percent.
     
  22. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    For some, sure, but riding around S Dakota is a big part of their days. Badlands, Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse - a lot of stuff to go see on their bikes. I know a few people who have gone to Sturgis.
     
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  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Out of all those infected, how many have shown symptoms like Nick Cordero's?
     
  24. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Not really sure. For some maybe. I try not to be too presumptuous about motorcycle clubs. We have some that have been pretty much hell raisers and some that have been Christian ministry type clubs around here. Being near the blue ridge parkway, we will get large numbers in the spring or fall just riding through as they are coming and going. I have seen it with corvette clubs and mustang clubs too. They just get together and ride/drive to do it I guess. IDK. I've also been at the beach during bike weeks. It was loud AF 24/7 but really not a lot of drunkenness or carrying on that I saw at least. Of course if you told me that 250K bikers were coming to my town, I would not presume the best. I just do it when they go elsewhere ;)
     
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  25. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it evolved later with more people sick and dying, I think I saw a final IFR of 1.4 but in view of what you said, maybe I'm mistaken.
     
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