The more the EU constituents try to break free, the more the central planners will apply pressure to keep the whole thing together. Look what happened to the USA, once a federation not unlike the EU. When one group of states tried to separate from the others, we fought a bloody war of domination to keep them a part of the whole, and somehow that actually worked! The USA as it was established, the constitutional republic it had once been, died in that war, and a new entity rose in its place. So might the EU also go should any members seek to leave it, because those who want an EU and have power over it, will make the pawns fight for their will to maintain it. The longer the EU exists, the more likely this is also, as each new generation is more and more conditioned to think of themselves as EU citizens and of the EU as an unshakable whole. Yes, it will weaken individual nationalism among its members until it is effectively killed, being reduced to the same kind of word-only spirit you see in states like Texas and Bavaria, where people sometimes make a bleating noise about being free, but are no nearer to being free than the next federally dependent and dominated state or nation.
Balls!!! What does the EU benefit the average working man or women in the UK? The WTO & GATT agreements ensure free trade amongst its members (which all EU members are signatories). But the Schengen agreement drives down their wages. So if you own a large multi-national company, then I'm sure you think that the EU is "far too valuable" to your profits - but to the rest of us ... it stinks! Plus it appals, my British sensibilities that European federalists MPs can pass laws that over-rule our own Centuries old parliament. Something that British people have never agreed to. The 1976 referendum was on the basis of the EEC & free trade, & not a federal European Parliament. EU=Fascism by stealth!
A valid point; but these days, I wonder who would die for their own Country? There has been too much multi-culterism in the press & a fabian/liberal agenda that has brain-washed the youth, since the 1960's to actually "hate" their own Country to an extent that a "National cause" would never be accepted by the population. Even the hatred of the EU amongst the population is split due to the media propoganda that the EU has brought peace & free trade & economic properity ... All of which is untrue. But many sill believe in it.
The problem in Europe is that it's made with countries really very differents, we haven't the same langage, religion, etc... And, there has been a lot of wars, since centuries and centuries; there's still lot of tensions because of that; I know a lot of french people, of my age, who still hate germans because of the war. People in Europe don't really feel europeans, except a few, as for the little countries like Luxembourg. Also, Europe is less and less popular in every countries. Politicians, who understand that, tend to reject all the failures of their own governement in the European governement, that increase the feeling of hate. We don't speak about fighting: this is the other opposite, people are not enough agressive: the european governement want to creat a solidarity, ignoring all the problems and just acting with values; as exemple, UE want rich to help poor: so, richs countries of UE are less and less agree to pay for the "poor" countries of Europe; and, this "poor" countries tend to blame UE for their problems: so, no one like UE. It's probably a good idea to put all the European country together, but, not like that. The UE is too lung, have non identity, and haven't succeed a lot of things... And, there is really a few people who try to make us feel european; on TV, you hear politicians who blame UE, at school, teachers rarely like UE, every people blame it and they don't feel annoyed about that, that's not like saying bad thing about your country, because the country had an history that make us attached to it, we tend to blame just the governement more than the country. For UE, people aren't attached to it, because it's new, it had never been "great", had no identity, so, it's so easy to blame it...
I know a lot of people of all ages that hate the Germans, some because of the war & some because of their economic domination of the EU. Many people within the EU hate each other. I hate the French & the Germans. But most of all I hate the EU bureaucracy that overrides national sovereignty, although I don't blame the French & Germans for that. I blame successive British Governments that have given away our powers to Europe.
Don't like the sound of all that hate. No race is responsible for the actions of it's leader. I'm not to blame because our dictator, David Cameron is trying to do away with Human Rights. My uncle was shot down over Hamburg and I am going to visit his grave there and if possible I will also try to visit the grave of the young German who shot him down, Both men were defending their country so why should I hate.
Our medias speak more about "Berlin"; "Germany" than "the Germans"; it's rarely the people who is directly accused, but, lot of people make a link between the governement and his people. Also, lots of young people hate Germans because of what the older member of their family told them about... It's a stupid behavior, it's why their have been 3 wars between France and Germany, people tend to make a link between the older generation and the younger. As you, I dislike our government for what he did with UE. But, UK respect more their people than other countries of Europe. It will be easy for UK to leave UE; for a country like France, it will be very very hard, unfortunaly. People in France look don't felt like leader of UE, this is most Germany who lead UE nowdays and France have to folow all the other. On more reason to leave.
That's totaly true; I've got an old member of my family who visit the grave of germans, even if lot of member of his family have been killed during the war: all the country who made the war have been sufferin from the same thing, there's no reason to hate each other for that.
Yes, some valid points there, you have made. To be honest, I don't really "hate" French or German people. the few I have met are OK. It is their federalist Governments I hate. In some small way I can even understand why some muslim terrorist are prepared to kill "so-called" innocent people from Britian, Spain, France, Germany & Italy. Why do we allow our national Governments to perform acts that are so clearly against our own national will? So are we not guilty ourselves to allow these barbarians to govern us? I really don't think that to have "nationalist" governments will lead to war in Europe. It will produce a more contented population. We can agree free trade & friendship from the basic understanding of our own national needs.
I hate my Governement too: I can't understand how it can walk (it's a quite normal, as it don't walk) as we are governed by people who hate France (Taubira is the best exemple of that) and logicly don't want the country to succeed, it can only failt. Lots of people don't know: they aren't interested that much about politics, and, in media, etc... they are teach to be ashame about their country, ashame about being whrite, etc... People may disagree and don't vote for the right party because it's badely see. I know some people who are agree with the ideas of extreme right party but who will never vote for it, just because it's an extremist party, so they vote for a "good" party and aren't satisfied when he's in power. I think exactly the same. Each people should think about his own community, and just respect the others, that's not more complicated. But nowdays, when you say so, you're politicly incorrect...
That was a little different. It was simply too difficult for the Union of American States to exist with half the States practicing slavery and half not. As Abraham Lincoln said in a speech before the war, "A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free." For one thing, this put a tremendous amount of economic pressure on the free States because they had difficulty competing with slave labor. Then there was the issue of slave rebellions, the Union could not protect the slave states without indirectly supporting the institution of slavery that many in the free States found so offensive. The issue of escaped slaves only added fuel to the fire.
By God I hope so. You're spot on in pointing out how Germany is twisting the EU as a mechanism to favour its own economy. Germany is trying to build a Fourth Reich through the euro currency, the austerity it's imposing on Greece (I actually agree with austerity but no nation should put a gun to another nation's head and force them to accept a policy just to maintain geopolitical leverage) and the way it resists loosening integration proves that two world wars hasn't taught the Germans to suppress their imperialistic desires. The sooner we leave this bureaucratic god forsaken stagnating hell hole, the better.
The misconception in that regard is that people in 50 or 100 years time we will still pay that much attention to nationalism as we do today. The EU is a project directed towards the future, a scenario which doesn't seem to get accepted by many Brits. Whether the the dominant region of the EU is somewhere in Germany, France or somewhere else will depend on the people, not on the nationalistic or geopolitical ideologies of yesteryear. It seems that Brits are especially focused on geopolitical aspects within continental Europe, even more so than us living on the continent. This "splendid isolationism" from the 19th century where Brits got involved only to stop one country to become more powerful than another on the European continent hasn't left the people it seems. It is odd to me why so many Brits are still stuck on geopolitics from the 20th and 19th century. They don't seem to want to accept that people evolved since then, and that France and Germany won't go to war against each other. They are focused on working together to create a country which can in each way compete with countries like India, USA and China. The more nationalism dies, (which it does) the less important it is whether someone leading the country is coming from London, Athens, Berlin, or a small village somewhere in Romania....
You're living proof that propaganda still works. Or at least the nationalistic aspect of it. Something very much alive in the UK and US, especially among people living in rural areas who never left their country.
I clearly think the same. At first, UE was not like that... But the more times passes, the more Germany get all the power in UE... There's not longer a "Franco-german couple", only idiots can think that the choice are make but the two countries. Greece is a good exemple, that disguisting to make suffer this people as UE is doing... It show that this Union is not fair, the richs countries (almost Germany) are destroying the poorer... Also, lots of country, like Spain, haden't a lot of economics problems before join UE: join UE make the countries enter in a unfair competition with other countries really to differents from them. I hope UE will change a lot or disapear, because, nowdays, it's a disaster.
