buying a firearm

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Robert E Allen, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:12 PM.

  1. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 1:13 PM
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  2. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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  3. StarFox

    StarFox Well-Known Member

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    What a horrible surprise for these girls, they now realize that the democrat party has been lying to them over and over and over and over and over and over and over again about the purchase of guns. How shocking!

    Educating the young victims of the democrat party, one college kid at a time. It will take a long time but eventually the truth seeps in.
     
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  4. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nice video, but I cringed when I saw him handing over the firearms to the students, one should never hand a firearm to another person, doing so is a leading cause of a accidental discharges and commonly puts one person or the other downrange to the muzzle.

    The correct method is to place the firearm down with the muzzle in a safe direction and then have the other person take custody of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 10:24 AM
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    I agree there was not a lot of muzzle discipline. I am guessing there was a lot of patience and frustration on his part that didn't make it past editing.
     
  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    I was always taught to check the chamber to verify empty, verbalize empty to the recipient, hand the weapon grip-first, and release when they verbalize they have it (usually just by saying 'thank you'), like with a knife.
     
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  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    That method gets people shot.

    If the firearm is to be unloaded you unload check set it down get clear of the muzzle then have the receiving party pick it up and recheck.
     
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  8. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I can’t count the number of times I have received a gun to repair, sometimes by those that have been long time owners, who you’d think have been trained in gun safety, to find that the gun is still loaded. It happened recently, I was handed a cased 1911, was told the gun was unloaded (see... no inserted mag), but found a cartridge chambered. I periodically see someone on unloading a semi auto do this procedure, rack the slide to eject the chambered cartridge, then drop the mag. Uh, Right.
    Then there are the antique muzzle loaders found in Grandda’s collection after he died or found in an attic brought to me for appraisal or safety inspections.
    As a child of 4 or 5 with a toy gun, my first and never ending lesson was muzzle discipline before all else, if violated there were sanctions. It was the old constant repetition of the never allow the muzzle to point at what you don’t want destroyed... this simple lesson trumps all other safety measures. I have ended hunting excursions with people I observed violating muzzle discipline and upon stating the reason, hearing, but it’s unloaded. I was taught at age 5, guns are sneaky... when you aren’t looking they load themselves... aside from muzzle discipline it was the second most important safety lesson I learned, still teach, and in case my students don’t believe it, I make a lesson of proving it, one taught in a way they never forget it.
    Many decades ago, I was shown a simple exercise, by a fellow instructor, to illustrate importance of muzzle discipline to newbies, again, one I use. He would place 48” dowels in the barrels of students’ unloaded (his and their inspections) and have them handle the guns while he went through different parts of his safety training... periodically, interrupting the lesson and asking..where is the dowel pointed. Interesting lesson even with experienced shooters.
    When I am on the range with students I generally advocate when a gun is placed on a table or bench that it be done with mags removed and action open, or with revolvers... cylinder open. Then the barrel direction? My wandering dowel is usually nearby.
    All of this... then the question of loading and using holsters....
    Yep, guns are sneaky creatures...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 1:15 PM
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  9. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    My Grandpa learned muzzle safety and firing a loaded weapon when he shot off the end of his finger when exclaiming"look, it's not loaded" with his finger in the end of the barrel.....Kept him out of WWI and WWII though.
     
  10. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    That’s called violating a rule for purpose
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hereditary can be disappointing.
     
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. You put it down. Preferably with the slide back and the mag out.
     
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  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Dont see how I can get shot with a weapon thats been verified empty. Besides, whether you set it down or hand it over, both can be done while maintaining muzzle control.
     
  15. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Because stuff happens, I'm not saying you are careless, but chit happens and handing someone else a firearm puts somebody downrange of the muzzle which is a gun safety rule violation.
     
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  16. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Slide back or blocked back and mag out or cylinder open.

    But always put the damm thing down.

    A few years back I was looking to buy a Colt Pocketlite .380, I found a shop that had a used one mint condition at an excellent price, the counterman removed it from the case and went to hand it to me, I advised him please put it down on the counter, he did, I picked it up and locked the slide back.

    I was allowed to take it on the range and fired a few rounds and bought it.

    He asked why I wanted him to put it down and stated all of our guns are unloaded, they are all safe, I explained the way he wanted to hand me the gun put him downrange of the muzzle, I then asked if he ever came across an ****** that wanted to buy a gun, his answer we have had a few, we chase them off.

    My next question what if I was an ****** and when you handed me that gun I pulled the trigger and it fired, you would have been shot through your arm.

    Our guns are unloaded was the answer, I asked did you check... no I didn't, wow.
     
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  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I never trust a gun is empty on someone else’s say so, or if my attention has been diverted unless action is open or a empty chamber flag is in place. It’s an immutable bit habit for me, one designed for as much consistency as possible to minimize the possibility of failure. I am much the same in my consistency in my EDC carry habits... no variation.
    My muzzle discipline is habitual, but always consciously applied. For instance, think about the oft discussed muzzle up or down discussion...then consider are you in a building with upper/lower floors, standing over a hard surface?
    I believe in gun control... my control of a gun or, my assessment and monitoring of others handling of guns. And, when I handle a gun on there’s presence my actions are meant to convey my philosophy of gun safety to anyone who might benefit and to give those knowledgeable, a margin of confidence in me that have the same philosophy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 2:52 PM
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  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    no method works in every situation, of course. when i hand someone a weapon, its muzzle up, grip towards them. people above me would necessitate a different approach.
     
  19. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of reasons accidents occur, lack of knowledge, negligence, lack of communication, lack of consistence and predictability, misplaced expectations, being mishandled, being dropped, poor maintenance, unadvisedly tinkering, and big among them, complacency. My favorite reason, guns load themselves when you aren’t looking; learned at age 5. Then their are dogs... happen not long ago...dog didn’t know gun safety and trigger discipline. So... train your dogs well.
     
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