California movement to secede from US cleared to gather signatures

Then let the state of California prove to the united states it is truly needed, and is the only thing serving to keep the nation afloat.

 

It does now. After secession it would not. The secessionists are practically giddy with how much money they'll save by not paying for a military anymore, and that + ITAR means that companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, SpaceX, etc. would move their operations out of California and back into the USA. California's aerospace industry would get slashed.

 

Those things come from the parts of California that will be remaining in the USA.

 

How???? Doesn't all of California want to secede? I'm not calling for California to secede by the way, I'm just saying for the sake of argument.

 

Yeah I am sure Californians will forget to make planes overnight. Hoopla!

 

No, they don't. For the sake of argument, see the discussion Doug1943 and I had on page 38 around self-determination, or the outlines of what I see as a viable deal in Post #957. The secessionists wouldn't get all of California.

 

Califonia has almost no auto manufacturing and they are lacking on fresh water, electricity production, oil and refineries, and no military except the national guard. You will be Mexico in a month.

 

You can pray to magic sky gods. But if you want real change, if you believe in the real world, contact your representatives demanding that the States be given the right of secession. Tell your friends. Post it everywhere.

It is the one thing on which we can all agree - America is dead. And we don't want to be a part of the same country anymore.

 

CO shows up on COVID tracking maps as not being good.

As for cocaine:
"Cocaine is frequently abused in Colorado. The percentage of Colorado residents who report having abused cocaine in the past year is higher than the percentage nationwide. According to the 1999 and 2000 NHSDA, 2.5 percent of Colorado residents age 12 and over reported having abused cocaine in the year prior to the survey compared with 1.6 percent nationwide."
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs4/4300/cocaine.htm

My reference to Kansas was only a remark on my experience in CO - which is limited to the view from 25,000 feet.

 

LOL!!

https://militarybases.com/california/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Motor_vehicle_assembly_plants_in_California

 

dupe

 

YOU were talking about influence that comes from foreign investment.

So, I posted a case of that in McConnell's state.

Also, China has huge investments in America right now.

 

China does have huge investments here, and visa versa; a situation that I hope the US corrects. An independent California would not, but you seem to think..what? An independent California won't be any more corrupt than it already is?

 

It's not that they'll forget, it's that the US Air Force won't purchase B-21's from a foreign country, so Northrup Grumman will have to move their factory out of Palmdale and back to the USA. SpaceX today can't hire foreigners, because of ITAR. What do you think that means for their rocket factory in L.A. when L.A. becomes foreign soil? Do you think they might have to move it into the USA if they want to keep launching satellites for the USA? NASA isn't going to send funds to a Jet Propulsion Laboratory in a foreign country. Those federal funds, and the jobs they sustain, are going to be diverted away from California to one of the remaining states. It may not go away entirely, but huge chunks of California's aerospace industry are not sustainable if California becomes an independent "nation-state".

 

There have been much larger such movements in Texas.

CA may disagree on a lot of policy issues, but they don't somehow hate America. In fact, they have a leadership role in America.

In Texas,, people just wanted to leave.

In CA, the desire is to make America the greatest nation possible.

 

I didn't say anything about corruption.

I haven't seen data showing that the US has more investments in China than they have in the US.

CA is interested in a strong Pacific trade pact including many nations. With that, the negative aspects of China can be resisted.

 

A very good point. When the US divides into its separate parts, it will be important to maintain them as a free-trade area. The tricky part will be joint defense.

 

This CA secession thread is just plain STUPID.

It's illegal for a state to leave - as ruled by the Supreme Court and as supported by Scalia more recently.

CA is less likely to want to secede than is Texas, which has an active secessionist movement dating from the civil war days to today, with reasonably strong current polling numbers even without the support of elected officials.

CA is the 5th largest economy in the world and about the 6th fastest growing economy per capita among US states.

There is no chance they will decide to throw the cards in the air.

 

@WillReadmore I agree with you about the probability of an actual California secession. This thread is more about trying to explain to the secessionists why their ideas are stupid and that it won't all be sunshine and roses if they were to go through with the attempt. It's sometimes entertaining to imagine "what if" scenarios (particularly if they involve Californians eating generous portions of humble pie).

 

Yes California founder Louis J. Marinelli was born in the US, and moved to Russia after high school in New York. We worked in St. Petersburg Russia as an English teacher. He entered and graduated from university in St. Petersburg, Russia.

He is a Republican who hasn't revoked his US citizenship.

He came back to the US in 2011 with his Russian wife and joined the CA Nationalist Party where he and those he supported ran for elected office a couple times. When he massively failed, he moved back to live in Moscow (and NOT Idaho, lol).

Now, Republicans seem to see him as their representative of CA politics!!!

My only question:

When will we start excluding Russian interests in our elections?

 

California secessionists are mostly Democrats.

 

It's of interest to note what enemies of America support, or oppose, in domestic American politics.
However, it's just a datum, not a dispositive fact, where we can put a plus wherever they put a minus or vice versa.

That, just because the Russians or Chinese, favor, or oppose, a certain politician, or bill, or act, doesn't settle the issue.

For example: if an American politician proposed that the US invade and occupy those parts of ex-Soviet Georgia seized by the Russians in 2008, no doubt the Russians would oppose him and support his opponents. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War ] But then, so would any sane person.

From 1936 on, the CPUSA, a Russian puppet party, generally supported the Democrats, with the except of 1948 ( Stalin was in a confrontational mood and had the world's Communist Parties enter a militant phase) when they supported the Progressive Party. But this was not really relevant to whether or not one should have voted Democratic in any particular election.

In 2016, the most belligerent anti-Russian presidential candidate was Hillary -- who reflects the Washington foreign policy establishment -- so of course the Russians opposed her.

Unfortunately, Mr Trump's character has totally obscured the question of what America's attitude to Russia should be. He's inverted the usual equation, in which liberals and progressives are less warlike than conservatives. (And not just on this issue: I can't tell you how bizarre it is for someone who grew up in the 1950s, to see conservatives cursing the FBI and CIA, while liberals praise them. Rightwingers sound like Marxists -- the 'Deep State' -- and Leftwingers sound like ultra-patriots. The world turned upside down!)

For anyone who is interested in thinking about this issue outside the pro- and anti-Trump box, I recommend Christopher Caldwell's How to Think About Vladimir Putin: [ https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-to-think-about-vladimir-putin/ ]
or on video here
:[ ]

 

Yeah, OK, as they say in Santa Monica... "...Whatever...."

Well... onward. But, anytime the "Golden State" wants to leave and form its own country, or a 'Soviet', or a "Kumbaya Commune", or 'The People's Republik of Kalifornia', don't delay!

And if Trump threatens you with a military invasion just for trying to leave, we on the Right will be happy to remind him of how nice it would be never again to have to live in the same country with America-hating, slime-sucking creatures like Pelosi, Schiff, Feinstein, et al....

 

I'm sure the Red Areas that are contiguous with the surrounding States will want to remain and form their own state(s). And of course, the Federal Government is not going to allow the Blue Populations of LA and the Bay Area force folks who want to remain Americans, out of the US.

So the newly Independent CA is planning on taking over all their citizens Social Security Commitments and all the Public Employee Pensions?

 

The division of assets and obligations is always tricky in these cases, and yet it can be done. When the British left the Indian sub-continent, assets had to be divided among Pakistan and India. A dictionary in a public library was supposedly torn in half, each side getting a piece!

On a grimmer note, the partition of India cost about one million lives, since the Hindu/Sikh and Muslim populations were interpenetrated. This is almost always the case where peoples are mixed together geographically, and the boundaries of new states come into question, because, as our liberal friends piously remind us "Diversity is Strength!" (They didn't read George Orwelle's 1984 for nothing.) Hopefully, the Americans will prove the exception that tests the rule.