Can we be ready to open schools in the Fall?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by MJ Davies, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    From the look of things, we may not be ready to open schools in the Fall.

    How is this pandemic going to change the way schools operate?
    What changes can be put in place NOW to make any transitions move smoothly?
    What other countries seem to doing it right and how do we use that to restart the US?

    What do you think?
     
  2. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Schools and businesses around the world adapted with online alternatives. I think we'll see that grow in the future. For employers, they'll be able to get out of the ridiculous rents they've been paying and colleges might just have far more online learning. There will always be a need for 'face to face' - but the vast majority can be done remotely.

    High school learning can also move in this direction - but elementary schools will have to continue to operate as they have simply because of the 'day care' necessity for parents.
     
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  3. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    This pandemic is an opportunity to rescue kids from the cancer of the public school system. We could be launch a massive initiative to fund alternative programs that seek to localize the education experience into smaller professionally managed programs supported by online resources. Parents should have every opportunity to take their child's education out of the hands of failed bureaucrats and placed under the management of private educators.
     
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    It will definitely become the new normal, but at what costs? One advantage colleges and universities had over online schools and diploma mills is the classroom setup. Sure, some classes can be taught remotely but what about biology or music and others that don't lend themselves to remote teaching?

    Buildings will shut down when out-of-state kids can no longer live in dorms or meet up for meals with friends in the cafeterias. Without the hefty tuition monies, educators will be expected to do more and possibly at lower salaries.

    And what happens to the "value" of the education when schools have to shut down programs because of costs of ramping up?

    I think the face of how we do business has changed forever and this pandemic has shown employers just where they can revamp their business models to allow for long-term remote employment. If so, this will provide parent/s a way to earn an income and be with their children. Sure, they may have to pay for a sitter to keep the kids while they work or trade off with other parents to make it happen, but that's doable.

    As an aside, I've been surprised to read about the number of parents/guardians having such a hard time sheltering-in-place while helping their child/ren with online learning. It's a sad day when you only wish somebody else would take your kid/s for 5-6 hours a day. ;-(
     
  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I really hope that something like this can happen. The state of the educational system in this country is deplorable. Maybe we can overcome this pandemic and rebuild a stronger, more accountable and worthwhile school system.
     
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  6. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    What is your rationale for closing any schools in the fall?
     
  7. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with that. Kids are super-spreaders of disease. Covid has proven to be a hard disease to control even with social distancing.

    My covid control plan:
    1. A national military enforced quarantine to defeat this virus.
    2. Open up the country city by city once their cases are minimal and close them down and test them if covid pops back up.
    3. Mandate that private industry produce effective face shields, tests, thermometers, N-95 face masks, gloves, hand sanitizer, etc so they aren't any shortages anymore.
    4. Implement compulsory covid testing and test millions of people every day.
    5. Require mobile apps that track covid and who people come in contact with. Require that people submit their temperature daily to national database.
    6. Require face masks in public buildings and crowded spaces.
    7. Mandating drug companies throw everything to research treatments and a vaccine.
    8. Make covid testing and treatments free.
    9. Keep international flights closed and shut down the border.

    My economic plan:
    1. Extend unemployment benefits.
    2. Pay companies to re-hire their workers and get them off unemployment benefits.
    3. Give large bailouts and benefits to companies especially small businesses to keep them from collapsing.
    4. Prevent people currently behind on their mortgage and rent from losing their homes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  8. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Northern IL - Our governor is re-opening in phases. The last one is that a vaccine is found and made available. That seems like quite a rush job for the FDA. So, it's not I think the schools should be closed. I'm concerned about when they can safely reopen.
     
  9. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I am separating your points out so I can address them. It is not meant to "pick apart" your response.

    Distraff post: 1071802272...

    My covid control plan:

    I think we are heading straight to martial law.

    How can we do this when Governors and even some mayors are refusing to cooperate?

    That makes sense. I am only hesitant on that one because I don't believe we should be buying/accepting anything from China until an investigation is done to determine if they willfully released COVID-19 and didn't block international travel earlier enough to ensure it spread around the globe. That could takes years to sort out.

    I was reading somewhere (maybe here) that someone suggested they were telling us to self-quarantine as to not overtax the health care system. How could millions of tests be given daily in such a system?

    This one frightens me, quite frankly. Why wouldn't people just lie to get around the rules (ie. not self-quarantine, exposing self to others, etc.)? How would that kind of data center manage all that and what would be done once someone shows a temperature? They can't go knock on the door and drag somebody to a hospital for treatment.

    That's already in place in my state (IL) and the ones not doing it are the ones most likely to be exposed to the virus.

    Realistically, how long do you think it would take for that to happen? And, where does that put the testing and implementation of treatments for other diseases in the line-up?

    The costs will have to be paid somehow, maybe not by the patient, but someone will have to pay.

    Which borders and for how long?

    *********
    My economic plan:

    That sounds workable, but for how long?

    I believe this will be the hard part. Employers are seeing what it's like to work with minimal staff and handling business through employees working remotely. I believe this will change the way business is conducted completely. However, I am also concerned that some employers will simply downsize their staff and countless people will become unemployed and eventually fighting for whatever jobs are still left when this is over.

    How would that work? How is that funded?

    This one is tricky. Either banks or private property owners will get stuck with the debt.[/QUOTE]
     
  10. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen so far, there's an incredibly small risk, almost none at all, of school age children contracting covid. So I guess it's not clear to me as to why we need to be quarantining them at home.
     
  11. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    What about all the adults employed at the schools?
    What about all the parents that congregate to pick up their children from school?
    What about all the day care providers that look after several children (from different families)?
    What about all the bus drivers (who often have another job where they could be exposed and become transmitters)?
    What about all the janitorial staff being exposed to biohazards?
    What about all the "floaters" (substitute teachers) in/out of any number of classrooms/schools?

    It's not so much the children, themselves, are at high risk or high risk. It's the infrastructure of how to get those children back in the classroom without causing an upswing in new diagnoses.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  12. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Martial law will only happen if things get really ugly and riots break out. It probably wouldn't even be used to address the outbreak.

    Declare martial law and send in some troops. Americans would have to be on board with it or a military quarantine would be violently resisted.

    China should certainly be held accountable for what they did and I'd like to see us produce a lot more in the US from now on. But we can't let our tensions with China get in the way of fixing this crisis. We can deal with China after its over.

    We could deliver tests through the mail, Amazon, or the military. We have 40 million unemployed so we have an endless supply of people who would do this.

    It frightens me too. But what frightens me more is this thing dragging on for years. Plus all our info is on NSA, Apply and google databases anyway. At least this would be for a good cause. We could hire tech companies to build these apps and some tracking apps already exist. We just need to get organized and come up with a national standard. So if you get infected, the government will contact everyone who came in contact with you and have them self-quarantined and tested.

    I'd mandate that private industry mass-produce face-shields and N-95 masks and that people be required to wear both. Most face masks people are wearing are barely effective. We can also come up with a super-mask like what scuba divers wear and have that mass-produced too.

    It could take years to come up with a vaccine but the more we work on it, the quicker we will find it. Research on other diseases will have to be reduced until we figure out this one.

    It'll be debt. We are going to be in a big debt crisis anyway. At least we can get the economy going quickly.

    All borders. Mexico. China (air). Canada. Etc. During the quarantine phase, also lock down state borders, and borders between counties in quarantine and out of quarantine.

    As long as there is an employment crisis. Cutting benefits will reduce spending and slow the recovery.

    The UK has already done something like this and it works pretty well. If employers downsize their staff, then they won't get any stimulus money. I am sure a few will pick this option.

    We do it similar to the UK and give companies money if they keep their staff on payroll. It is funded through debt like everything else right now.

    Or the government can do a one-time payment. Keeping employees on payroll and ensuring complete unemployment benefits means people should be able to pay all their bills from now on. If only....
     
  13. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    What about the flu that infects about 30 million every year, and kills about 40,000? If we can fully function with the flu, and a host of other contagions, surely we can fully function with covid as well.

    It's totally absurd to think that one contagion should shut down an entire nation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  14. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    <snipped>
    I really hope it doesn't get to that point. The last thing we need is a civil war.
    So, you think it's "safe" to accept testing kits, masks and other products from China before we know, for a fact, they are solely responsible and it was deliberate? If true, why wouldn't those items arrive on our shores already tainted (with some kind of long-term bioweapon that would survive the journey)?
    That sounds feasible. I read on here about the post office struggling. That could easily put some wind in their sails.
    George Orwell and Rod Serling were certainly visionaries, huh? ;-0
    A couple months ago, I was at WalMart and someone was wearing a complete dinosaur costume. No joke. All of us standing in line waiting to get in were looking at one another as if we didn't see what we just saw. I don't know how well scuba-like gear would go over in the warmer months but it might just come to that.
    Sounds like it. There are no easy answers for this one.
    I hope this is a plan that people will get behind despite their party interests. We've had enough division.
    It may come to this and would pump some much needed support and funding into law enforcement. If implemented, it could certainly derail the calls to defund the police.
    It makes sense to apply a torniquet and deal with one component at a time if we want to achieve stabilization. I just hope we all are working toward that same goal.
    Got it. I was heartbroken to read about the companies that had to pay back stimulus money because they accepted it and still fired their employees. Treacherous.
    <snipped>
    If only...

    Thanks for your thorough response. Much appreciated.
     
  15. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point and have some of the same concerns. I am not an expert on contagions but, for me, the greatest fear is for my children. Like all kids, they think they are invincible so they naturally are not hyper-vigilant about these matters.

    From a purely biological standpoint, most people are immune to the various flu viruses and/or can be immunized (to a point) when exposed to germs within our own region. But, we don't have any natural immunity for a virus that started in another region. This is why it's been fast and furious. And, unlike the "regular" flu, there can be no warning signs that one is a carrier or even sick until it's too late.

    I also believe the difference between the "regular" flu and all the viruses that we've faced in our lifetime (ie. H1N1, Sars, etc.), there was a "buffer" so they never rose to the level of real threats to USA citizens and certainly NOT the entire world. We have never faced a virus that has shut the world economy down and displaced millions of workers around the globe.

    Scarier, to me anyway, is the idea that it's designed for another purpose. I shudder to think what that might be and its implications in our lifetimes and for our descendants.
     
  16. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I hope we don't get to that either. Taking the right steps can help us prevent that from ever happening.

    If I was China, I'd just stick the bio-weapons in the toys in Walmart. They don't get checked at all anyway. Sending a bio-weapon would probably result in a strong military response, maybe even a nuclear attack. I don't think they would do that.

    We have a lot of people out of work, so we have a lot of resources to devote to a national effort.

    I'm actually fine with surveillance because terrorism will be a great and greater threat in the future. Some discruntled religious radical might be able to make a super-virus in his basement with CRISR. We would double down on surveillance not only for this pandemic but for the future as well.
    https://www.livescience.com/58790-crispr-explained.html

    I have not seen anything like that before lol. I have a hat with a plastic face shield and the set cost about $20. I'm just thinking we can probably make a really good full-protection mask and give one to everyone.

    A vaccine is literally our only good way out of this distopia. I'm shocked we haven't invested more in a vaccine.

    I'm pretty sure this race thing will be forgotten when the second wave hits. And we shouldn't ever defund the police lol.

    One way of seeing it is we keep businesses afloat and workers on payroll. For those who slip through the cracks, we then have unemployment benefits. While this is happening, we quarantine on a county level and beat this virus while pushing for a vaccine. Unemployment benefits should have been the backup plan not the main plan. I agree that companies that take stimulus money shouldn't be firing anyone. But the stimulus is so small, that firing makes more sense for them than the stimulus. Our stimulus was far too small and took far too long to distribute. Thanks for your comments. They made me think about my position.
     
  17. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    You have NO idea how much I hope you're correct.
    That is frightening. Again, I hope you're right. Laws only keep honest people honest. They have very little impact on those who choose to do evil. They always find a way around it.
    That might work as long as people use them. I think it would be a hard sell in the warmer months though.
    Vaccines are a double-edged sword. There are too many cases that show they are not always what they are cracked up to be. As much as I want a solution, I wouldn't be first in line to get a vaccine, especially one rushed through the testing and approval stage. I am always skeptical of the AMA because they aren't in the business of making people better because they need repeat customers.
    That is a red herring if there ever was one. Everything points to a reason why we need more (non-brutal) LEOs WITH some kind of independent oversight agency to keep them in check.
    I wasn't speaking of the companies that used the money as much as they could to stay afloat. There were news stories that some received the money and laid off all their employees anyway. That is unconscionable, IMO.
    Same here. Thanks.
     
  18. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing contracting covid with becoming seriously ill from it. I'm not aware of any evidence that children are less likely to be infected by the virus, only that they are less likely to get symptoms. This makes children very dangerous in terms of spreading the disease.
     
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  19. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    Surprised people think we can continue to just shut down the country...people literally want to keep handing out money we do not have that will have no value if we do so...

    Of course we have elected officials wanting to mint trillion dollars coins so no surprise people believe money is just paper and and can always print more!
     
  20. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I certainly am not in that camp. That is why I'm so concerned. Devaluing USD is NOT a solution by any stretch of the imagination.
     
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  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "Absurd" is not the appropriate word for this, I think

    There is no reason that a virus or other contagion can't wreck havoc in America (and the world).

    Why would anyone assume that our pretty much total lack of preparation and unwillingness to fight would render us safe?

    Maybe you meant that its absurd that we're so uninterested in fighting - that I would agree with.
     
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  22. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. And, how do we, as a nation, make sure we are never caught unaware in the future?
     
  23. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone assume that shutting down our entire economy for months on end would make us safe or secure?
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That was the best we had. There had been NO planning for pandemic response, there were no remedies, there were no tests, there were no vaccines, the disease progression wasn't known, the methods of transmission were poorly understood, it's lethality wasn't known - plus we're still learning about the lasting impact on the human body.

    We had wildly overflowing hospitals. We had almost NO PPE. We had doctors and nurses retuning from retirement to treat those who were sick - even though those doctors were clearly in the high risk groups.

    YES - our irresponsible behavior was killing healthcare workers who were risking their lives to save us.

    And, we certainly did not "shut down the entire economy". We just used what we had to buy some time.

    You still aren't even asking the right questions.

    Why are we choosing to ignore medical science in HOW we open our economy???
     
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  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    One model we have for that is FEMA.

    We need the pandemic response planning organization that Trump killed when he entered office.

    What we had instead was a TOTAL cluster. We had the federal government incapable of providing and guidning needed resources to where they were needed. We had no rubric on travel either internationally or locally. We almost immediatly got our airwaves cut off from medical science by Trump - who DAILY gave false information that motivated irresponsible behavior and expectations. We had slow and inept response on testing availability. We had no planning for stuff liike testing and tracking for when testing became available. We had FEMA interdicting supplies that hospitals had purchased - without them even telling the hospital that they weren't going to get their supplies. We had no plan for augmenting hospital capacity.

    Most of the above is STILL not solved - still has NO organized approach, still has major insufficiencies in supplies called out as severely needed. We even now have a plan for safely opening our economy, available on whitehouse.org - but Trump promotes AGAINST THAT PLAN!!!

    ALL of that, every bit of it, was and is totally avoidable.
     
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