Civil disobedience and the age of consent

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Beppo, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Beppo

    Beppo New Member

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    Throughout history there have been unjust laws, such as persecution on the grounds of skin color, sexuality or religion. These laws were unjust because there was no justification for their existence, other than blind hatred and ignorance. When people disobey these unjust laws it is called civil disobedience.

    Age of consent laws vary across the world, from 18 in the USA to 14 in Italy. Clearly there is no consensus in regard to what age one becomes capable of consenting to sex, or at what age sex ceases to be a harmful activity. There is no universal age of consent, yet the law imposes absolutist age based restrictions on sexual activity. Actions must be proven to be harmful in some way in order for them to be illegal, yet there is no evidence suggesting sex with persons under the age of consent is harmful. For example much of the research only looks at individuals admitted to psychiatric hospitals, disregarding the potentially higher number of unharmed individuals who experienced under age sex.

    Adding to the complexity of the issue is the role of adults in the lives of persons under the age of consent. For example there is no law preventing parents feeding their children junk food resulting in obesity. Another issue is that of criminal responsibility, it's not uncommon for persons under the age of consent to be tried as an adult - this implies persons under the age of consent can understand the implications of their actions. Finally there are different ages at which one can drive, serve in the army and drink alcohol - all adding to the inconsistency of age based laws. Martin Luther King said "one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws".


    My question is this:

    Is it civil disobedience when an adult has sex with a person under the age of consent providing there is no evidence of harm?
     
  2. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Beppo: "When people disobey these unjust laws it is called civil disobedience."

    No, Beppo, that's not civil disobediance. That's called blocking traffic, vandalism, assault, murder, littering, creating health hazards, indecent exposure, theft, robbery, extortion, and so forth.

    Sexual assault on a minor is not civil disobedience. I realize the extreme frustration that exists for a man who cannot attract a woman and needs to seek out children.
     
  3. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Pedophile alert. delete thread. ban user. take shower.
     
  4. Beppo

    Beppo New Member

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    I'm disappointed in the quality of your replies. I consider this to prove my argument infallible.
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
     
  6. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    No. It's pedophilia. But this is exactly what I've been expecting. I've expected the pedo crowd to try to piggy back on other people's causes and try to squeeze themselves under the "civil rights" umbrella. This way they can remove the stigma from their perversity and present themselves as an oppressed class of people who "just want the same thing as everybody else..... to be with someone they are attracted to."
     
  7. injest

    injest New Member

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    yep and we seem to get them pretty regularly here...they are hoping that we will get tired of calling them out and then they can claim "see? they accept us!"

    guarantee you that OP is friends with some of the other guys posting all the threads about having sex with kids.
     
  8. Traditionalist

    Traditionalist New Member

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    I've never been to a site overwhelmed with pedos and white supremacists before. :(
     
  9. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I am amazed and disheartened at the number of posts on this site, in various forums, promoting reducing or eliminating the age of consent to have sex.

    It concerns me only because I don't think these people are actually waiting for the law to change.
     
  10. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    This isn't a NAMBLA site so please leave.
     
  11. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Every time someone tries to discuss the laws regulating sex between adults and children, it seems all the other members just shout them down with insults and accusations. There never seems to be any real arguments put forth by those against change.

    If members want to express their political support for a current law, they need to at least provide some sort of argument.
     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    It should also be remembered that many young men have been labled "sex-offenders" for the rest of their life, even though the girl was only 2 or 3 years younger and the relationship was completely consensual.

    Pedophillia and Cultural Relativity
    Most of these "forbidden" sexual acts are, fundamentally, completely culturally relative. You are so "brain-washed" by your cultural upbringing that you just automatically assume it is plain wrong. One sign of cultural (or religious) programming is trying to make excuses that justify your certain beliefs. For example, there is no shortage of excuses in the muslim world for why female circumcision is not only acceptable, but even necessary.
    Sex, and even rape in most cases, is not physically a severe form of abuse, as it does not really result in any injury. Parents abuse their children all the time, but the forms of abuse are so minor that no one gives it any thought. Sexual acts, however, are commonly associated with culturally-induced shame. Do you think, perhaps, that there is nothing inherently wrong with “pedophilia” and that this is just an illogical moral value that society has instilled into you? Likely you feel it is so obviously wrong, that you never felt there was even the slightest chance that you belief might have been a relative one, based not on universal human goodness, but rather on cultural norms that are now widely prevalent throughout the world because of the domination of Western culture.

    Comparison with the concept of nudity
    For example, the sexual meaning and context of nudity is highly relative with the culture. While there are certainly undesirable effects associated with pictures involving a defecit of clothing, whether a particular society should ban this is not an absolutely clear and obvious choice. There are many stone age tribes of humans that do, in fact, go about their daily lives without clothes, even to this day. They are likely no less amused by Western taboos concerning nudity then Westerners are by seeing muslim women wear the full black veil/shroud on a hot summer day.

    Child Sexuality in Aboriginal Australian Culture
    Sex acts themselves are often of little consequence in aboriginal culture. There was one case where an 11 year old girl was raped by several older boys. The white female judge in Australia dismissed the case, emphasizing sensitivity to the cultural context, and adding that the girl "probably enjoyed it". Indeed, the aboriginal mother of the girl, when questioned, explained that the boys had engaged in the activity with her daughter before, which was not a problem, but this time the girl had been unwillingly cooerced into it. The judge’s decision caused an outcry, of course, and one commentator claimed, "had the girl been caucasion, the offenders would have received hefty prison sentences". Had the decision gone the other way, the aboriginal community likely would have protested and the Austalian government would be seen internationally as indifferent to indigenous customs.
     
  13. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    What is there to talk about pedophilia? It's morally wrong and rather...uhhh...how to put this...:puke:...disgusting.
     
  14. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    I was all about to agree with you that the age of consent is indeed culturally relative and American society has become phobic to the idea of underage sexuality, however you lost me with your attempt to strengthen your argument by using culturally sanctioned rape.

    Rape is wrong regardless of the age. To dismiss the case because it is culturally accepted and because "she probably enjoyed it" is the most appalling thing I have ever heard come out of a judge's mouth. One more time for the stupid people. No means no means no.
     
  15. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). The law is already on the books. If you want to change it, the entire burden of proof is on you.

    There seems to be a very popular left wing debate tactic that can be whittled down to simply "always go on the attack." This way the other person always has to justify their position and you never have to justify yours. Even if the other person is merely siding with what has already been established and hence has already been determined to be legit.

    Sorry, cupcake. We already have the law on our side. You're the one in need of proof here. Not us.
     
  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    any time it is forced the child will live with the trauma, however on the other hand most often when it is not forced the child will take 2 paths, either become traumatized as a result of an overruling cultural conscience or dream of reliving it over and over.

    Forced against ones will is the evil here, regardless if it is an adult upon a child or the gubbermint upon the person or family.

    seems everyone is guilty now doesnt it.
     
  17. Locke2012

    Locke2012 New Member

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    I'm going to preface this by saying I am in no way in favor of pedophiliia. I can argue this both ways. First off as far as morality is concerned, the Government of a Free Country such as America has no business determining morality of its citizens. While do think that age of consent laws world wide (and state to state for that matter) are a little... off, I do feel hat there are few systems that could work. Currently two people under the age of consent can be charged for having sex with each other, even though both are under-age, that is wrong. I also feel it is wrong that a person just above the age legal age who has sex with some one just under the legal age could be charged. But as far as removing these laws? No, absolutely not. Children are impressionable and often do not know what they are doing.

    I'd also like to refer you to: http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20070206/teen-sex-may-take-emotional-toll which shows the negative emotional effects on early sex.
     
  18. UtopianChaz

    UtopianChaz New Member

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    While I agree with most of the above points. The only problem I can see is that removing an Age of Consent would result in a 'slippery slope' where the people who truly intend on causing harm can simply say the person they slept with consented. There is also the issue that most youths are impressionable and rather easy to outwit for an adult.

    I do not consider this to be an issue though because more often than not he people in the 16 range are often sleeping with individuals around their own age. Even if they are caught nothing is done about it because prosecutors as well as police know that though it is technically against the law they havent really done anything wrong.

    The real issue lies with people who are past the age of consent having relations with those who are not. I cannot forsee any solution to this problem as while there may be a great deal of situations where the relationship is genuine is is impossible to determine if the individual is being manipulated in some way or not, if the relationship is bad for them etc etc etc.

    So yeah. Tough issue I'll admit. Another issue of removing the Age of Consent or decreasing it is it brings some scary thoughts into a parents mind. Do you really want to think that your 16 year old child could legally have relations with someone who is 20+ ? Especially when it isn't until 18 we consider them legal adults?
     
  19. injest

    injest New Member

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    OR will internalize it and be so filled with self loathing she becomes anorexic or starts cutting herself..ruining her self image and her ability to trust.

    and in all the years I have worked with childhood survivors of sexual abuse, not a one 'Dreamed of reliving it"...had NIGHTMARES about it but not 'dreaming'.

    no child has sex with an adult willingly, it is something put on them by the adult (kids aren't BORN knowing about having sex). No adult has ever been seduced by a child...so regardless if the pedophile grabbed the kid off the street or spent weeks grooming her/him, it is STILL rape, it is still NOT the child's choice.
     
  20. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    But Progressives & the Left want you to get behind the Marrage of 42 year old men & 16 year old boys .
     

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