"commonly misunderstood qur'anic texts" by dr. jamal badawi information there are good and vague sides of the speech. but overall, it's an informative lecture about how to criticize scriptures, especiallly the qur'an. everyone who is interested in religions should see this to maybe understand the methodology of religious research. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4D9aB21DwM"]FULL- Commonly Misunderstood Quranic Texts - Dr. Jamal Badawi - YouTube[/ame] discuss.
I have no problem with the video. "i am here in this forum from now on. we can post back and forth regarding religion. if you need any info in the real islam and not the media's version, then i will be glad to provide you with it. that is if i am capable. i will search for an online english version of the quraan and post the link here, if for some reason i dont come too often to this board, email me and provide a link for me to get back here lol i may have lost it!" (posted August 30, 2001 03:50 PM) "Muslim...Reading foreign translated words can be easily misinterpreted without someone there to help, I went over some of those quotes several times." (posted September 01, 2001 12:03 AM) There were no further posts by muslim after August 31, 2001, except the one in the "Taliban" topic asking forgiveness for what "they" were about to do. Then on the morning of 9/11 I went to the website of the muslim and was led by a bloody mujahideen link, and a saying embedded in the link, to Azzam.com (see FBI) and the saying led me to the foreign message board where they were talking about something big coming, and afterwards offering to fight with the mujahideen, and talking about he perfect Koran. Also the Moslem programmer of my Koran software also had a message on his website offering to fight with the mujahideen whenever and wherever against those who attacks in Afghanistan. "You will see that some important questions of mine were never answered." (posted September 11, 2001 05:11 PM) Sunday, 30 September, 2001, 16:54 GMT 17:54 UK: "'We do not accept the presence in our country of a single soldier at war with Muslims or Arabs,' Prince Sultan said in comments published on Saudi Arabia's official Okaz newspaper on Sunday." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1571689.stm "Saudi Arabia said what? 'You cant kill an Arab or Moslem;' No matter the murderous plot, We respect them?" (Sun 30 Sep 2001 09:03:18 PM EDT) As a result of that, and in keeping with your video: I have no intention of taking Muslims as protectors; hence how I would interpret and use Article I Section 8, "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," with the intention of not taking Muslims as protectors.
1) look i understand what you have been through. i live in a country where we have been dealing with terrorism for decades. this might be presented to you recently. but the concept is not new to turkey nor to the middle-east. for instance pkk is a terrorist organization. thousands of people died because of their attacks. they claim that they represent kurds. we know they don't. we don't hate kurds. we just condemn the terrorist organization. we must distinguish and stop generalizing. we can't base a relationship based on hypocrisy, deceit, censorship and fabricated events. i advise you read huntington's "the clash of civilizations", if you haven't yet... the only clash -if you ask me- is between ignorants who shout. on both sides... 2) saudi arabia do not represent muslims. 3) you are not allowed to kill no one in islam. you certainly don't have the right to harm a non-muslim. i don't know what you heard or what you know. i am a muslim. and i'm telling you it is not. as stated on the video. people will pick from the same verses over and over again. from chapter 8 and chapter 9... the whole book is not about that. and those parts are about the fight with the polytheists. verses about "the state of war". ---- my point was. i watch people everyday, i see people, i hear people. but i don't know how to talk to their angry minds... they tell me qur'an is this, islam is this... and i say i don't believe any of these things. i come from a culture where jews fled from catholic spain to ottoman empire and seeked refuge. the empire has given them rights and protected them... that's in 1453. and they have been living ever since. we recpect the beliefs of others... we enjoyed living together. don't you think all this mess in the world has something to do with the sovereign states of the world? i know Allah (God) is loving, merciful and awesome. i know islam is the truth. i live it everyday. i can't know what you live over there. and i sure can't change nobody's mind. only Allah can. regards.
Very well said, except that current events and historical events does not support your claim we can see just how Muslim countries implement what they believe is the real Islam that include; discrimination against none Muslims, women, severe punishment that include death to apostates and proselityzers, and Muslims weak support for the oppressed Muslims such as the Kurds, Bosnian, Agfhans etc. And the persistant of Muslims in general claiming that Sura 9 the same Sura 9 that those terrorist and radical Muslims are using are all self defence making it appear that those radicals are justify and that it is all our faults, lack of missionary works to preach what you claim is the real peaceful Islam to those Muslim countries instead you keep preaching to us as if we are the problem ( or are we?) but most of all the lack of support militarily to fight those terrorist and radical Muslims.
you are not helping either... flaming the situation by presenting bad cases of islam. check the implementations during the 4 khalifas after our prophet (saw). then we'll talk. would this shock you? if you learned that the radical islam and the misinterpreted ideology is being supported by the united states? would this shock you? to learn that they are being financed by the west? come live in the middle-east. your world view will change.
No I have not read the book, "the clash of civilizations", does sound interesting though, but the wiki on it mentions one I have read "Terror and Liberalism," by Paul Berman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clash_of_Civilizations You said, "saudi arabia do not represent muslims," and from my point of view before 9/11 I did not suggest that the Taliban represented Muslims, only that their social contract represents their view of Islam. You said: "as stated on the video. people will pick from the same verses over and over again. from chapter 8 and chapter 9... the whole book is not about that. and those parts are about the fight with the polytheists. verses about 'the state of war'." Just about everyone who quotes those verses is perfectly aware that those verses were about a state of war. Many times people, usually "liberals" defending Islam whip out some verses from the Old Testament and say "see they killed all those people," and yet a look in context speaks of sexual plague, that claimed around 30,000, and when the speared (all those that had slept with the foreign women) the plague was stopped. Just because something is historical does not mean it does not have relevance. How one reacts in the past without some other context clearly condemning those actions, there is no way to disawow it. Here is a state of war, that our mentally ill "Liberal" supreme court, excepting Clarence Thomas' side, did not consider the start of the WAR: August, 1996: "More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void. The treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) once Quraysh had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah, the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him). The prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) fought Quraysh and concurred Makka. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market." (Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places.) July 1997, South Movement, "the path of Jihad and proper action": "Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq's national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/countries/Iraq/speech.htm Who are "those" pronoun people "well-known for their positions regarding the enemy?" {please do not duck that question} "Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: 'But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)'; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders." http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm It does not matter that you would not use that verse that way, it matters that it was used that way and easily could be in modern times by anyone who claims we have an unjustified aggression. On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop. Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means. To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings. It is only normal to say that punishment is a necessity in our world, because what is a necessity in the other world must also be necessary in our world on Earth. But, the punishment in the other world is faire and just, and the prophets and messengers of God (peace be upon them all) conducted punishment and called for it in justice, and not on the basis of suspicions and whims. (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.) Once again, we say that, injustice and the pressure that results from it on people lead to explosions. As explosions are not always organized, it is to be expected that they may harm those who make them and others. The events of September 11, should be seen on this basis, and on the basis of imbalanced reactions, on the part of governments accused of being democratic, if the Americans are sure that these were carried out by people from abroad. To concentrate not on what is important, but rather on what is the most important, we say again that after having seen that the flames of any fire can expand to cover all the world, it first and foremost, needs justice based on fairness. The best and most sublime expression of this is in what we have learned from what God the Al Mighty ordered to be, or not to be. (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.) Who are the magical they that Saddam said, should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings? {please, do not duck that question either} and have not backed up any one against you, is perfect argument for giving our troops orders to shoot to kill every American "liberal" so-called "human shield" commie pinko hippie that went to Iraq to save Saddam and his Al Quacka proxy. You can say, "you are not allowed to kill no one in islam," and obviously ignoring what I hope you are trying to say, clearly when at war "with the polytheists" that Muslims cannot kill is not the case. I do not want you to believe wrong. Challenge us, and your own, show us the right verses, argue your case. We cannot argue it for you. You need to find the verses or make the arguments for Muslims that they are not a "Nation as Muslims," a term used by one Muslim when claiming that none of our human rules apply when there is a cartoon of the prophet. And any fight must be between our sovereign states, not the "nation as muslims," or Catholics or anyone using terror. And if you cannot respect a sovereign state's right to cartoons, we are going to have a problem. People offend with words--the only way to know we have freedom of speech is to use it. Anything that claims to be the word of God will get greater scrutiny, and any misuse that 1.2 billion cannot catch, can only make us wonder about its application; Obama got Osama! {You have no idea how much I wanted one of yours to get him.} When a Muslim is shown the verses in our Book attributed to Jesus with regard to the Golden Rule, and the Muslim asks, "what does that have to do with Muslim," it makes us wonder too if there is a Golden Rule in Allah's word or is it an afterthought? If you show us a verse within the sacred months, that claims you cannot fight, it will not work for us at all; recently one on your side did it again: http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...ble-more-violent-than-qur-25.html#post4888857 That is simply unacceptable when there are other verses that will do the job better. I chased one Domestic Muslim from Chicago through three different topics once to get an answer to the question, "can we kill Hamas," and it took more than fifty pages before "Peaceful Muslim" admitted support for Hamas. If we apply the verse part "and have not backed up any one against you," that domestic should at a minimum be under FBI surveilance. As it is now, until all the sovereign states of the world truly represent their people, and they are enfranchised to vote, and we see how they react to their representative's bad actions, we cannot truly know what their majority believes about any of our books.
i don't think you are sincere. if you were i would keep discussing here. you showed that your intentions is not to communicate. i often answer to people even if they have massive prejudice anyway. not for them but for people who might come across these forums and actually have the good intention to learn. but i won't do the same and reply here. i don't want another islamophobia thread. i'll let people watch this video, bump this thread occasionally if i don't forget. you, on the otherhand; if you wanna vomit your hatred, there are countless anti-islamic threads in the forum. pick one. not this one. be well.
If I had changed it to Red Stone Idol, it would have made no difference to the meaning of what I said: https://www.mbabramgalleries.com/mideast_syrian_red_stone_idol.html
This is what I am saying everything is our fault. The Taliban, Hamas, Iran, Iraq, Somalis, Saudi Arabia, PLO, Hezbullah, Pakistan etc. ect. ect. are all under the leadership of the CIA, this would mean the CIA is Islam? or all those groups are not really Islam? THis is what I mean, Muslims just can not see anything beyond themselves it is always our fault, why don't peaceful Muslims go and preach their brand of Islam to the Taliban, Iran, Somalia, etc. etc.. teach them about freedom of religion, don't kill apostates, don't kill proselytizers why don't they?? Will you guarantee my safety if I stay in the Middle East for 12 months to preach about the Bible to Muslims?
no this means cia has an interest in radical islam. thus usa using islam as a made up enemy to endorse the civilization clash. and make themselves look good when exploiting other countries. if muslims were smart, they wouldn't fall for that. you must understand how "belief" works... you can make people believe anything with interpreting things in a any holy book. some people will go blindly because they will believe that. muslims get executed too for expressing their own opinions. that is, if what they are saying s against the global agenda endorsed by sovereign states. muslims killing muslims... you have a problem with radical islam? so do i... because i have a problem with everything that is not just, fair, humane, thus against Allah's will... i am not against "orthodox" islam, i am against it when it becomes radical... anyone is free to devote himself to Allah (God). but you cannot harm others by doing that. it's not always your fault. but it is mainly your fault. you don't read. you get easily manipulated. you are fighting towards the wrong direction. our fault, because we don't speak. we fall in the trap and close all channels of dialogue. "they see us as enemies, then they are our enemies too". this is eye for an eye... and you know what gandhi said about this... we are divided in camps and getting exploited like slaves. christians and muslims... we should ask who is profiting behind this chaos? this is what we should be discussing. but we are too busy finding each other's mistakes. no i won't guarantee, you are on your own buddy. as i explained above, i can't guarantee my own safety either... here in the middle east, the equilibrium depends on many other things... you might be shot and used -in the western press- as a poor idealistic martyr to raise some sort of artificial tension to make some more profit on petroeum... so no, no guarantee for anyone in the world we live in.
