Confedferate Soldxiers are American Veterans by law.

Must never been in a Golds.

 

So where does Fort Sumter fit into slavery or even states rights ?

Fort Sumter was the federal governments Customs House for Charleston Harbor that collected the import and export tariffs for the U.S. federal government.

This thread isn't about why the Southern states left the union or why the Union decided that the South couldn't leave the Union. On the union side it wasn't about ending slavery until 1863 after Lincoln had issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

The thread is a FYI thread informing the low information Americans that those Americans who served in the CSA army and navy are recognized as being American war veterans.

What I brought up, then why isn't the Confederate battle flag not being recognized for what it is, a battle flag in respect for those American Confederate soldiers who fought under that flag that didn't represent the CSA but represented the military regiments they served with ?

 

When I see the Golds Gym t-shirt today I think of nine dead black Americans who were murdered inside a church.

 

Read the "damn" actual transcripts / records of the debates that took place in each of the Southern states legislatures when they were debating if they should succeed from the Union or not. It's not on the internet yet but I suppose some day it will be.

You know today there are PC revisionist in our schools and universities who are teaching that the South was trying to overthrow the federal government. I (*)(*)(*)(*) you not.

Probably the same people who claimed that a battle flag killed nine blacks in a church. And some people are so stupid they actually believe a flag can kill.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Flags don't kill people, people kill people.

 

Yow. Could you be more wrong? No, Fort Sumter wasn't a Customs House. Geeze.

It was a military instillation to provide protection to the harbor - owned, I might add, lock stock and barrel by the US Government.

It gets worse. No. Not only did it not do that, there were no export tariffs in the U.S. Read the damn Constitution.

No. they are not. How many times do you have to be told this? They waged war against the US.

 

I love how you you cut off what completely slices off your at your knees.

I have read the transcripts, and you apparently haven't. Find in the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States one mention of the word Tariff. Go on. I dare you.

You'd think if it was all that important, they would have mentioned it. Slavery was the yoooooge, overwhelming reason why they seceded. No getting around that.


You continue to show how little you know of history, and are just spouting Lost Cause pablum.

 

No, the schools and universities are not "teaching that the South was trying to overthrow the federal government."

But, iffin' you wanted to take what the Secretary of War of the Confederacy said (and a few others) shortly after the rebs opened fire at SC, some might surmise there were a few that had that intent:

"[The] Secretary of War, addressing the shouting throng, said,

— "No man can tell where this war, commenced this day, will end ;
but I will prophesy that the flag which now flaunts the breeze here, will float over the dome of their old Capitol at Washington before the first of May.

Let them try Southern chivalry and test the extent of Southern resources, and it may float eventually over Faneuil Hall itself."

https://books.google.com/books?id=7... which now flaunts the breeze" abbott&f=false

 

True that it was a fort to protect the harbor but during the 17th, 18th,and 19th centuries military forts were used as custom houses and were usually run by the military. When the U.S. Navy jumped the gun thinking the war with Mexico had started the Navy landed Marines and blue jackets to seize the Mexican custom house in Monterey, California where the Mexican government surrendered California to the Americans.

Then word came down that the war hadn't started yet.

Well the American flag was lowered, back up went the Mexican flag and the Marines and sailors went back to their ships.

The battle of Fort Sumter, three months long battle and the body count was zero on both sides.

 

Seriously messed up. ^ In every way. No other way to explain this kind of bizarre, nervous response.

Own up to the fact you didn't even know Export tariffs are Unconstitutional and never imposed, yet you claimed it was "one of the big complaints by the South."

You are floundering here, badly, and it's obvious to anyone reading.

 

Southern states attempted to secede from the Union to maintain the instutiion of slavery. Their economy was agrarian and depended upon cheap labor...cotton was the chief export and if sustaiined an entire region. Cheap labor was required to literally pick the cotton and this labor was derived from the ownership of African slaves.

The whole nation was implicit in the slave trade...Northern states tacitily approved slavery...but times were changing and the South felt threatened. The end of slavery meant the end of cheap labor. The writing was on the wall, slavery was going to eventually be made illegal on a Federal level...so a group of Southern states seceded.

The Confederate States organized their own militias and military, they were separate from Federal troops.

Now if the South wishes to preserve it's history and remember the veterans of the CSA, frankly I don't take issue with that. We can't burn the history books and pretend like the Civil War did not exist. They fought bravely for sure, although perhaps on the wrong side of an ethical issue, but they fought to preserve their way of life..their economic existence.

My only issue, my only caveat is..particularly as a U.S. Armed Forces veteran and the son of a U.S. Armed Forces veteran...is to equate the equivalent veteran status of a Confederate soldier or sailor to that of a U.S. soldier or sailor....they are not the same. The South may honor their own..but don't expect the entire nation to do so, they were in fact not U.S. veterans, then and now. Don't pretend they are....they spit on the very Constitution every U.S. veteran has taken an oath to support and defend. They spit on the very President every enlisted U.S. veteran has taken an oath to obey.

Honor your own, but don't pretend it's equivalent to a U.S. veteran.

 

She's always citing sources she has either never read or blatantly misrepresenting what her sources actually say. As you can see from the fevered spamming, they think 'posting last' with repetitive gibberish and ad homs will bury the fact they can't back up squat, as in establishing their basic premise that the secession was illegal, that blockading ports was an act of war, and that the Constitution allows the Federal government, specifically the executive branch, to impose a full blown military dictatorship on the northern states and launching a war and the use f force against seceding states, despite being proven completely wrong and conclusively proven so by the Constitutional records themselves. They are just bloviating and screaming 'racism' now, having lost the arguments they made, so no need to feed the trolls any more.

 

25 years for an act of non-violent resistance against an oppressive and racist regime??

lol!!!!

 

Most of the tariffs recorded in northern ports were on goods that were in turn shipped to the South, i.e. the South was paying the tariffs collected in northern ports on imported goods. Northern states had a monopoly on coastal shipments to and from the coastal states. The South would install much lower tariffs on imports and ship directly to and from their own ports, which in turn would have made their goods cheaper all along the coasts and along the Mississippi River trade networks as well. These are the numbers Paperview and others deliberately ignore are or just ignorant of, being not at all well read on the topics they keep bringing up; but then they're just AstroTurfing anyway and such facts that are inconvenient for their gibberish are dismissed.

An added factor was the effect of the tariffs on cotton prices themselves.



Citing northern port tariff collections are highly misleading to say the least.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=430265&p=1065501995#post1065501995

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=430265&p=1065502024#post1065502024

Still waiting.

You have been shown with your pants down.

 

Still trying to save face and retain a shred of credibility I see. You even misrepresented data in this thread. It's what you do; you really can't do even freshmen level research competently, much less understand what you post.

 

Well said. To say they are in any way equivalent is a total, ginormous affront to every soldier who took the oath to uphold the US Constitution.

 

Do you think the Northern states were somehow less repressive and violently racist? Most of the abolitionists in the North were of the 'deport them back to Africa' types, after all.

 

Have everyone noticed the man who thinks
"The South didn't start the war...Lincoln did" and who spouts DiLorenzo neo-confederacy garbage has been unable to back up what he says?

We all can see your attempts to discredit me (and the facts) falling flat.

 

Obama's executive amnesties are unconstitutional and ?

Tariffs are taxes. Government gets around taxes being called taxes by calling them fees.

They are usually hidden with in the price of something you purchase.

You ever owned a boat or better yet, an airplane ? You land your airplane at LAX there's a landing fee. It's nothing more than a tax. If you land your little private plane at LAX it's only a $65 fee (tax) The big planes pay a whole lot more. It's called a "Landing Fee."

Even maritime harbors have fees that have to be paid, even back during the 1800's. Port entry fees I believe they were called. Then if you needed a dock or wharf to tie up too to load that cotton into the holds of your ship, there was the docking fee. Guess who collected those taxes ?

Los Angeles Harbor calls all of their fees "tariffs." And there are a bunch of them, they tax every thing. -> https://www.portoflosangeles.org/finance/tariff_4.asp

 

The jury is out for me on this one. On one side, the Confederacy seceded from the United States and made themselves a separate country, which lends the question of whether or not those fought for the Confederacy was, indeed, Americans. On the other side, every state in the south came back to the United States after they were crushed and demolished, so once they became part of the United States, the Confederate military became part of the US government once again.

So, for what it is worth, I will state I am "undecided" on this.

 

^ Floundering on stilts.

My gods man, you can't even admit there were NO export tariffs -- NONE. The tariff crap wasn't even any centerpiece, or side piece in the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States. -- Which many might note, Apach likes to delete when quoted.

You'd think something so important would be mentioned at least once - but nyet. You've been challenged to show it, and failed.

That's why you now go on about but... Los Angeles Harbor in a CW discussion. LOL

 

Many of those Confederate soldiers would go on to serve honorably in the U.S. Army during the 1870's and 80's.

No former member of the CSA army were able to be commissioned officers after the civil war.

I was just looking at some old newspapers published during the civil war and after the war. The Northern papers during the war called it the "Great Rebellion" while the Southern papers referred to it as a war. After the war it wasn't called the "American Civil War" but the "War Between the States."

Civil war ???

It wasn't a "civil" war. The Confederate states had a real army and navy who wore uniforms and recognized the international laws (rules) of war.
A "civil war: is when civilians are engaged in hostilities against a sovereign government.

The L.A., riots or the "Hands up, don't shoot" thugs in Ferguson, Mo. that's a civil uprising.

 

They were never a separate country, and no legitimate entity on earth recognized them as a country. They were US citizens in rebellion.

 

^^^ Note to readers: Nothing. Still. Unable to prove his claims. Lies.
All Strasser can do at this point is Ad hom.

 

Then try treating them as American citizens and show some respect.