Could Finland become the next Ukraine?

I got what you mean. You speak only about the territory of Crimea. People living in the Crimea, you're not interested. That is why the President of Ukraine cut off electricity and water to the Crimea. This is the revenge for the inhabitants of the Crimea, because they do not want to live under the authority of the Kiev's rebels.
This is a very democratic and liberal action.

 

For sure a piece of Western Propaganda ... no doubts ... but honestly: Your "excusing and defending" of Russia about this is same way lame as your accusing of the West when quoting same way sort of trolls to have told something against Russia and selling this as real truth. Maybe time to stop this BS of Propaganda warfare on both sides please? ... only a proposal.

 

Sumptuously!!!
(*)You criticize Putin for what he helped the Crimea's Residents to escape from the Kiev government rebels. You say that it is illegal.

You criticize Putin because Putin helps the legitimate President Assad .
In your curses no logic. Is not it?
PS

The USA smashed to smithereens Libya and Iraq. Now the USA wants to smash the Syria >>>> " ...instead of addressing wisely and peacefully the clamor."

 

Pure facts:

Was Crimean Peninsula part of Ukraine since the 1950's under Khrushchev's reforms and so being part of Ukraine also after end of USSR?
Yes! And that it does not become part of Russia with end of USSR is for me honestly not understandable and due to the stupid predecessor of Putin... Yelzin!

Since when is it a valid point anywhere in the world, that someone gets by warfare independence form his country?
Never! You are arguing and reasoning issue with the will of Russian majority not to be under Pro-Western government in Kiev and this is ... sorry ... lame. Your rating of the current government in Kiev is only a personal opinion and point of view of the side you agree with, but there is another side existing too!

Isn't it fact that everywhere in Ex-USSR, where always are Russian minorities existing, you and many other Anti-West people are supporting independence for them if the government is not "Pro Russia" like?
Yes it is ... see also Georgia, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia! It is also strange and smelling bad how these countries are offended with lies then too. For example it is so awful shameful how some hardcore Anti-West people are denying that the Baltics were not occupied criminally by Stalin and not being treated so very bad with deportations and murdering of people... and then becoming upset when a memorial for Red Army is removed ... this Army which for sure beats the bastard Hitler too, but also stands for depressing the Baltic People!

And then I can come with Chechnya as counter example. Sure ... a part of Russia at least, but since always under depression of Moscow since being conquered by the Tsars and being hated and blamed to be gangsters and criminals. When they wanted to become independent from Moscow ... which is for them same way bad government as for Donbass and Crimean people Kiev is ... they were slaughtered and a total dictator was implemented by Putin as regional governor.... but of course is this all only then Western propaganda what I write and not true.

So again in conclusion a propaganda BS war of both sides ...

 

So... if we give you 52 tonnes of silver, which in modern money according to my calculations is worth 29 507 920 USD, you will give us back the baltics?

Its a deal!

 

Of course not. This is not enough. The international rules take into account the loss of profits, interest. It is also necessary to transfer the money in purchasing power at the time. For example equate to the price of the land such as Stockholm at that time. Multiply by the Baltic area .... and so on. In addition it is possible only if Russian want to sell you a Baltic. And for that price, which Russia considers favorable for itself.

For example, I can not force you to sell me your house on my terms. Is not it?

 

Getting independence from some country by warfare is the most common way of gaining independence in the world from ancient times till nowadays. This is just a matter of fact.

 

Crimea was part of the unified country USSR until 1991.

In 1956, the Crimea did not was been gave to Ukraine. It was only a managerial act.
It was not Ukraine as country until 1991 .
it is a fact.

everything else I said here.
http://www.politicalforum.com/opinion-polls/469032-how-can-you-call-paradox.html#post1066489512

 

Yes it is ... and so declare legally the Chechnya wish to be come independent from Russia with same words as correct and OK as the wish of the Donbass Russians and Crimean Russians?

 

The Albanians in Kosovo. This is a precedent. It is an analogue of Donbass.
Russia helps Donbas, as the US helped Albanians.
The only difference is that Russia does not bomb Kiev, as the US bombed Belgrade.

 

You're again turning to some sort of propaganda, emotions etc. You said that getting independence by warfare is not valid point "anywhere in the world". I explained that's not true. What Chehcnya? Chechnya is not independent.

 

I think that Russia was wrong with Chechnya. Chechnya - this is a hostile population.Chechnya it is an abscess on the body of Russia. We treat it by money.

 

Aside any Propaganda BS of any side ...

Fact:
The USSR was a sum of many Republics ... Soviet Republics and it was right Josef Stalin who demanded first that every single Republic of the USSR becomes a seat in the UN what did not happen as we all know!

Fact:
After Nikita Khrushchev became Soviet Leader, the Crimea was annexed to the Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic in 1954. The occasion was the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Perejaslav of 1654, during which the Ukrainian Cossack state, under pressure from Poland, had submitted to the protection of the Russian tsar. According to the official Russian view (including that of the former Ukrainian Prime Minister Azarov) Nikita S. Khrushchev broke the constitution of the Russian Federation (RSFSR), which obligated the territorial integrity of the fatherland. Actually, the Supreme Soviet would have had to agree in Moscow and in Kiev. There was, however, only one vote of their presidencies, and even those who were under-occupied, i.e. not formally legitimized. The first secretary of the CPSU in the Crimea, Pavel Titov, protested and was replaced by Dmytro Polianski wgo agreed only!

Fact is:
On 20.01.1991, 93% of the Crimeans expressed their opinion in a referendum for the "reestablishment of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic of Crimea (ASSK) as a subject of the USSR and participants in the Union Treaty."
The Supreme Soviet of Ukraine confirmed the establishment of an ASSK in a decision on 12.02.1991, but announced the "re-founding of the ASSK in the stock of the Ukrainian SSR". However, a construct ASSK had never previously existed within a Ukrainian SSR, so the decision was legally flawed. It was, however, adopted in the Constitution of the ASSK on 06.06.1991, and so made it legally.

On 24.08.1991, the Ukrainian SSR declared itself independent in the existing borders, including the Crimea. In the following referendum on the state independence of Ukraine in December 1991, 54% of voters in the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic of the Crimea voted "Yes". In the beginning, Kiev was only able to get through the rule of the Crimea with difficulty. Only with considerable political pressure was a referendum on the independence of the Crimea prevented. As a compromise, the territory was declared an autonomous republic within the Ukrainian state in 1992. They obtained sovereign rights in finance, administration and law. In the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crime of 1998, Ukrainian, Russian and Crimean Tatar are defined as languages.

Fact:
With the independence of Ukraine, the Russian Federation came to the dispute over the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet and its home town Sevastopol. In addition to its importance as an important naval base for the former Soviet Union, the city is also a national symbol, partly due to its role in the Crimean War and the WW-2. In July 1993, the Russian Parliament declared illegally Sevastopol to be a Russian city on foreign territory, modeled on Gibraltar. The treaty of May 1997 governed the division of the fleet and the fate of the Russian Navy in the Crimea until 2017, thus easing the situation. Russia renounced the greater part of Sevastopol for 20 years = until 2017.

Fact:
In the armed conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, Ukraine under the then President Viktor Yushchenko who was not Russia friendly in general took the side of Georgia and threatened Russia not to extend the stationing contract of Sevastopol!
But when Yushchenko was by questionable elections dismissed and replaced by Russia friendly Viktor Yanukovich, the contract was extended until 2047!

Fact:
Right in 2008 when accession of Georgia to become part of NATO (and so during time when Viktor Yushchenko = not Russia friendly was President of Ukraine) was discussed, Putin told in the NATO-Russia Council that if Ukraine will ever join NATO, the Crimean and the Eastern Ukraine will be separated from Ukraine and sent to Russia Could be included. (Source: Official report of meetings from both sides!).

So think now about real reasons why Crimean Peninsula is now part of Russia … Right years before Maidan happened, Putin threaten and declared what then finally happened!

 

No I don't become into Propaganda BS ...
Getting independence by warfare was mostly done in history, correct ... even US independence from Great Britain was a war. But makes it these days to be a valid act out of it?
Chechnya was same way never independent as Donbass was at least ... but they tried it and failed in a very bloody war as we know (rest of resistance aside for the moment). So if Donbass rebels do in your mind correct, you have to admit that Chechnya's trial was correct too.

However, point here is the fear or non fear of neighboring countries about Russia to become in trouble and danger if being not Russia friendly enough. But for me is this report about Finnish fears same way rubbish BS propaganda as for you ... only btw!

 

And you know that Putin agreed for the seperation of Kosovo at least? But are both examples valid reasons to start war of independence?

 

"Putin agreed " .... hmm ... Yes. Russia is not the beginning of the war with the United States for reason of the bombing of Belgrade and throughout Serbia.

 

the real reason is - the population of Crimea, which wanted to return home.

If not for these fact ..... If not for these fact then Putin wouldn't do anything .......and Putin could not do anything .....and Putin even would not try to do something in the Crimea.

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[video=youtube;ydGE8TN0MQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGE8TN0MQA[/video]

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and talking about Finland, it's just ridiculous.

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Ehm ... maybe some dirty glasses that you don't see the background?

Ukraine not under direct or indirect control of Russia = major important naval base Sevastopol is in danger, as well important economic important Donbass region too = Must be secured and owned then!
If there is nothing important existing like this, there will be no occupation of Crimea ... simply like this and this is real politics as it is in complete world!

 

I see "the background".
But this is only the background.
The "central character" in the play called Crimea - it is the residents of the Crimea.
Ehm ... maybe some dirty glasses that you don't see the " central character "?


If the " central character " would against it, it would be a completely different play. It would be a second Chechnya.
More precisely, if the residents of the Crimea would be against it, then the play would not be at all.

This is the best fact.

/

 

I do not understand why you are outraged Crimea entry into Russia. Germany, too, will soon become a part of Russia. You've for sure heard that Russia will from Lisbon to Vladivostok. So you can calm down and learn the Russian language.

 

Yes, it does.
Almost all new independent nations first had some period of war for independence. South Sudan, Erithrea, Eastern Timor, Kosovo and other ones - they all had wars against the goverments of Sudan, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Serbia. And that didn't prevent the so-called international community of recognizing their independence.

But Chechnya didn't fail. They won the first war which ended up with the Khasavyurt Accord. One may say they won the war, but lost the peace. Numerous Chechen tribes started to fight each other and Chechnya quickly had become the Somalia. In 1999 the government of Maskhadov controlled only part of the city of Grozny meanwhile the territory of Chechnya was divided between various terrorist groups, some of them were led by Arab terrorists from Saudi Arabia and other foreign countries, the most powerful leader was Arab al-Khattab.

Geogrphically Chechnya is situated inside the Russian territory, it's surrounded by Russian regions from North, East and West, and of course there is no country which could afford to have a lawless hell just inside itself, and also keep in mind inhabitants of that hell attacked citizens, police and government bodies in the neighbouring regions. So, the second was was inevitable.

Maybe you think we dream about living in one country with Chechens? Actually, we don't.

Ok, I'm just trying to explain some details and my point of view.
Regardless of what other nations think about Crimea and its reunification with Russia, I'm sure Finland, Crimea and Chechnya are completely defferent stories.

 

No I think It's for Putin and Russian Ninjas who already occupied Crimea.

 

I sure hope you're joking.

 

No..it's not even a joke..it's a case of one flew over the cuckoos nest, no cure to his affliction, acute retardation. As for russki language it may be close to extinction in 20 yrs or so, almost everyone in the EU knows some English and can carry a conversation in it, about 400 mln Chinese are learning it as we speak, even in Russia today how many millions are learning it so they can moves points west for better jobs, "spek eenglish as Kwik as porsibel", English is universal language!

 

If Poland was fighting for "Poland from sea to sea." Why Russia is can not - "from Ocean to Ocean"? Is not that fair?