The question is pretty self-explanatory. Democrats, you don't like either one of these guys, but which is the worst? Post your reasoning below. Please refrain from saying "Trump, because he's in office now", as that isn't the point of the question.
In terms of retrain looking on that bigger picture as a perspective, I could say Trump is better than Dubya, after the 911 attacks Dubya created a lot of deaths and miserable lives in the middle east, lives which are not really directly or indirectly a part of the terrorist acts against the USA, innocent civilians, women, children, families like ours and so on, Dubya destroys lives instead of targeting the exact source of the problem with less or no damages. Trump recently prevented any attacks by making that preemptive strike against a possible threat a surgical one with less collateral damage and when the suppose opponent nation responded militarily Trump did not bite for he thinks that it will create a lot of trouble and turmoil both financially and humanely.
Seriously? Bush was inept. Trump is evil. Not a difficult call. I could sit down and have a nice dinner with Bush. I won't say what I would do if trump walked into the room because I don't want to go to jail. I'm not a dem but hate trump and support the dems now. I'm a former Reagan Republican, now Independent. Actually, I could have had dinner with Bush. When he was running for reelection, I was called by the republicans and offered a chance to meet Bush at a fundraising dinner. They said it was only $1500 a plate or something like that. I thanked them and said they would have to pay me a lot more than that!
Calls for extreme torture and the mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent people, coddling and praising cold-blooded killers like Jong Un and Duterte, inciting division and calls for violence, calls for his followers to riot if he was held responsible for his crimes, attacks on the parents of fallen soldiers, attacks on war heroes, attacks on the foundations of democracy, false accusations intended to cause unrest and hate, perpetual lies and deception, manipulating the minds of the gullible and weak minded... Surrounding himself with criminals, attacking women about their weight or bleeding eyes, attacking the wives of his opponents, ,,, just to name a few things off the top of my head. If I could remember every low ball, thug tactic he has used to abuse power, I could probably list a 1000 offenses by this criminal puke. More http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trump-in-a-nutshell.555643/
This is an astonishing point of view, to me. Most of the things you list can be categorized as "talking sh*t", which yes, Trump does a lot, but I wouldn't call that evil. And I see you have a long list of things you dislike about him, but I look at things like "calls for extreme torture and the mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent people" and I must compare that to George Bush actually undermining the US's long standing no-torture policy and establishing that precedent, and actually killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. The purpose of my poll is to find out why Democrats are freaking out now, during the Trump administration, so much. IMO, the time to freak out was under GWB, when a series of highly improbable events allowed the government to use its own failure to justify giving itself more power while redefining your rights. And that's the most generous interpretation of events. Oh, and then sending the world into a recession by going to war with every ME country except of course the one that the hijackers actually came from. To me that seems more like evil hiding behind ineptitude. Bush ushered in a brave new post 9-11 world and really destroyed traditional notions of freedom in favor of the security of the state. God, if we could just go back to our pre 9-11 paradigms, THAT would be making America great again.
Oh, that's a good one. But the first term isn't over. How can I do the comparison? Who knows what other scandals are out there waiting to be dug up? Maybe Iran kills some of our guys in the next go around, instead of just knocking their heads around.
I guess we can compare the two by when campaign season rolled around. So when campaign season rolled around for Bush in the first term, it was clear Iraq was a clusterfuck, but it wasn't clear just how bad it was going to get. Fallujah hadn't even happened yet. But it was obvious Iraq was a CATASTROPHE that was going to really cost us in both people and money (I hate "blood and treasure"). By 2004, it was obvious that Iraq was one of the stupidest things this country's done. Has Trump committed any catastrophes yet? Done anything that future generations will curse him for? Not really. We're certainly IGNORING a whole lot of crises (healthcare, drug epidemic, homelessness, deficits, climate change, housing shortage, income/wealth inequality, insanely powerful tech companies, what to do about social media, (if anything), NSA spying on us...) And that's not just Trump. The media doesn't want to talk about any of that because it doesn't bring in the ratings, which is because none of us want to read or think about it. It's depressing. Trump is distracting. That's his appeal. It's never boring. Trump makes sure of that. And I HATE being bored. “Against boredom even gods struggle in vain.” But so far Trump hasn't done anything but be a person with narcissistic personality disorder. He'll go down in history for that, and we got to see a political party turn into a cult of personality. But catastrophes? Not yet. At this point in time, Bush had done far more damage to the country.
I think Bush is a nice person. He's probably very kind. But he committed a blunder that Trump hasn't equaled yet. The norms that hold us together are incredibly strong, and we've been at each other's throats far worse than this (1940-41). Someone decent will be President in five years, at the most. And then they'll make comedies about this and all his loopy kool aid drinkers.
It's not an easy call. I think the damage that Bush Jr. did was easy to anticipate and even easier to see in hindsight now. Trump is unquestionably a worse person, but the damage he's done is a bit more insidious and long-term in impact. His dismantling of regulation and the EPA in particular may well have more of an impact than the Iraq War for future generations. I really want to pick Trump, because I dislike him more, but it's hard to prove at this point that he'll end up being more damaging. It's not like Bush was good for the environment either.
Trump. Bush never attacked democracy and the rule of law. Trump does. Bush was not a threat to American democracy, while Trump is.
The really profound tragedy of "W" Bush is that he was such a good Governor of Texas, and yet turned out to be such a horrible disappointment as president! He allowed the "intelligence community" of alphabet-agencies in the federal government to gull him into the disastrous intervention in Iraq, ultimately overthrowing one of the worse ENEMIES that Islamo-terrorists had -- Saddam Hussein! And, instead of 'taking care of business' with the Taliban in Afghanistan and then getting us the hell out of there, he kept us there -- on and on and on. Along came the 'Great Recession' and he just blundered around like the proverbial 'deer-in-the-headlights', turning over ALL control of the economy and government actions to the Federal Reserve System, who had carefully planted operatives in Bush's administration, telling him everything to do! And he went stupidly along, led along like a beast with a ring in his nose. Obama?! You would think that he could have learned something from Bush's failures, but very obviously he did NOT. First and foremost, he continued Bush's slavish, irresponsible reliance on the Federal Reserve System to 'rescue' those that it thought were "too big to fail", and the economy limped along unnecessarily for years afterward. Obama did make a half-assed attempt to disengage and get out of Iraq, but then, after pulling out just enough force to leave those that remained in a permanently-weakened, disabled state, he kept the United States there, with tens of thousands of troops as "guards" for the Embassy in Baghdad. Meanwhile, Islamo-terror groups like ISIS arose and took over much of the country, while Iran essentially subverted the other portions. Obama and Afghanistan? Well... what can you say? Obama did NOTHING but keep us there, and in 2012 he even made a 'midnight deal' with our puppet-government in Kabul to keep us mired in Afghanistan until the year 2024! Link: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2012/05/02/obamas-midnight-deal-will-stretch-afghan-war-2024 ** Doubters, take note -- we aren't out of Afghanistan yet! Four more years of this sh!t with the Taliban yet to go...?! ** Along comes Trump.... Now, after more than three years of Trump, yes, the economy is "steaming" (even though it rides the dynamic of a grotesquely over-valued stock market). Unemployment is at record-lows... wages are up... and, for many, especially those who got benefit from a big tax cut, "things were much better". They are better in a number of respects, but certainly not ALL. INFLATION in the prices of damn near everything Americans must buy or contract for, like houses, rents, medical services of ALL kinds, medicine, transportation, groceries, hardware, etc., etc., are much higher now than they was before -- and yet -- mysteriously -- none of those price increases ever seem to be counted when the Federal Reserve System analyzes the REAL "cost of living" in this country. So, on balance, Trump is a better president than poor, old "W" Bush. He should be... because Trump's had the benefit of living through the abject failures of both "W" and Obama, and those were MANY.
Compared to Trump’s endless criminal freak show it’s not even a question in my mind, I'd take GW back in a heartbeat. Trump is a freak, who is dedicated to doing harm only because it’s a lot easier than doing good, not because he’s evil. He lacks the focus to be evil. He’s just a bundle of arrogance and desperate need, and he could do just about anything, at any time. Trump is a dishonest, immoral man. That’s unique to the presidency going back a long, long way. People hated on Nixon and held him up as an example of a bad man, but Nixon was just politically slimy, and his lies were political lies. He wasn’t enriching himself, and his overarching object was the good of America. Bush was personally honest. Nobody ever thought that Bush was lining his own pockets - though Rummy and Cheney seemed to have no scruples that way. And Bush acted in what he thought was in the best interests of the nation. A lot of people disagreed, but nobody thought he was harming the nation deliberately, or at least indifferently, to further his own interests.
I'm voting George Bush. Trump is worse in every aspect except one. The Iraq fiasco cost thousands and thousands of lives. As bad as Trump is, he doesn't quite have the body count that the Bush administration does. But I'd still rather have Bush.
Hands down, Trump. Bush, at least, had a semblance of a clue about our system of government. The issue here is actually the infrastructure and priorities of the Republican Party. These two men are merely symptoms of the rot.
