Did someone think 1984 was a blueprint....?

....because when you put all the pieces together and see it for what it is, it sure as heck looks like someone decided that this novel by Orwell was not so much a work of fiction, but a model on which to base the World, at least the Western World.

Indeed if anything, the methods in the book are positively prehistoric and clumsy, when you truly ponder ALL the pieces we have today, lay them out, then think of the wider implications of that.

It's now not so much a case of whose personal life the NSA have violated and more one of who they have not. That this has been going on has been known for a time now, but it's only when the likes of that sad sack, Angela Merkel finds out that her personal life has also been sucked up by the NSA, and passed on to Tel Aviv, that the political class themselves show any interest.

She sounds like she is surprised she was included or something. Did she honestly think they would be more interested in the FB page of the "bloke down the pub" with a view, or her? And if they have been doing it to her, they have been doing it to all Western "leaders", and beyond that as well.

This is why Angela and a few others will now be in a sweat as well, because there is every chance that a corrupt political class could be talking about anything when they think they are "private". Up to and including crimes you may not believe. Although the violations themselves are indefensible, in their case, it is likely that they have most skeletons in their cupboard that those who have invaded their life can use to blackmail them with at a later date.

This would comfortably explain why a strange number of talking heads seem to pass policy which either has us scratching our heads at the logic, involves theft of people's or national resources, or whatever other damaging thing to us. There is a very good chance that when they do so, they are blackmailed.

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A leaked US intelligence document has revealed that Israel is behind the hacking of millions of phone calls and messages in France.


According to a report by Le Monde on Friday Israeli agents is behind a cyber attack against the communications networks of the Elysee Palace, intercepting more than 70 million calls and text messages a month.

France had initially accused the US of hacking into former French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s communications network during the 2012 presidential election.

Senior French intelligence officials visited the US earlier this year to discuss the attempt to hack into the Elysee communication system.

However, according to a classified documents dated April 2013, which was leaked by former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden, the agency denied the allegation and reportedly hinted that Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, had been involved in the attack.

The NSA’s Tailored Access Operations (TAO) that handles cyber attacks denied the allegations and said the US closest allies -- Australia, Britain, Canada and New Zealand -- were also not involved, the document reportedly noted.

After the World War Two, the US signed a "no-spying" deal with Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada, known as the "Five Eyes" alliance.


“TAO intentionally did not ask either Mossad or (Israel’s cyber intelligence unit) ISNU whether they were involved as France is not an approved target for joint discussions,” extracts from the document published by Le Monde read.

The report comes amid outrage over claims the US has been monitoring the telephone conversations of 35 world leaders.


"A US official provided NSA with 200 phone numbers to 35 world leaders… Despite the fact that the majority is probably available via open source, the PCs [intelligence production centers] have noted 43 previously unknown phone numbers. These numbers plus several others have been tasked," said the classified document provided by Snowden.

Snowden, a former CIA employee, leaked two top secret US government spying programs under which the NSA and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) are eavesdropping on millions of American and European phone records and the Internet data from major Internet companies such as Facebook, Yahoo, Google, Apple, and Microsoft.


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/10/26/331441/israel-hacks-millions-of-french-calls/

 

I don't know why it is such a shocking "revelation" that everyone is attempting to spy on everyone else.

I also don't know why that those whose lives more and more are reliant of the digital environment are shocked to "learn" that their privacy is no more.

OTOH, societal and legal norms have historically lagged far behind technological innovation. Privacy in the pre-digital age was considered sacrosanct, but yet the crude technology of the times often usurpted such a notion.

Considering communications are now "thru the airwaves or thru cable" the expectation of privacy when it is so easy to invade such is ridiculous.

Is it right? Is it moral? absolutely not. Is it something that is here to stay. Absolutely.

Unless society is prepared to establish a hierarchy of watchers watching watchers watchers watching watchers, every individual must assume that their digital persona is being spied upon.

As an example, look at how many idiots have bee caught in lies and frauds simply by assuming that their activities in the digital social environment are not accessilble by many or monitored by a few.

 

1984 was inspired by the worst governments of the period. It certainly is telling that modern western governments are so reminiscent of Orwell's creation, but of course I would sooner conclude that the resemblance is coincidental as corruption and abuse grows within said governments today, and, very sadly, as populations continue to acquiesce to it all instead of getting mad and putting a stop to it. You and I might have something in common with Winston Smith, but many others are like Smith's cowardly friend, or even like O'Brien...

 

A somewhat defeatist and absolute position, no?

On those grounds we may as well just all microchip ourselves, get rigged up to the grid, and become "items".

No point not wanting it. What they can do we must merely accept, right?

 

What they are doing is immoral, and an intrusion that people should not accept. Doesn't matter if it is Angela Merkel or you, no one's private life is up for grabs by any Gov body, directly or indirectly, in this manner in which they have been doing it, at the rate they have been doing it.

Once you incrementally accept such things, bit by bit, you end up with tyranny, that is if we are not all the way there already. It is inevitable, because if they get away with one gross violation of one thing, it follows that they will become more audacious about more and more.

That is why it is very dangerous.

 

Yes, contrary to what we often encounter in fiction, tyranny tends to come about gradually, even by the will of the majority. Too many people are too shortsighted (at best) about what's going on around them.

 

Have you noticed the gradual change from the "scary Muslim terrorist with guns" meme, to the "white guy with no guns" meme? Think about it. It is not Bin Laden they spend their time chasing about after these days, indeed, last I heard "Al Queda" were the "good terrorists", no, in more recent times the meme has not been scary Muslim man with beard, but Western white man with brain, Assange, Snowden, Manning, et all...

That's when you start to know we've been here before. Not just this alone, but when you lay all the pieces out, esp over the past 30yrs and since. You can then see it has a certain direction to it, and is not some random series of chaotic scandals.

 

no, not a defeatist attitude, a realistic one.

The ability to digitally spy on everyone is here to stay. It is a function of the technology itself.

It seems to me that if everyone is aware of it, then at least they can mitigate it to some degree. I simply do not think that the power structures that be will reliquish such ability. Individuals may protest, parties may protest, but in the final analysis such programs are run by massive bureaucracy's that merely pay lipservice to their elected "masters'.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. There is a network called the TOR network which you can access by merely installing a new browser. A lot of criminals, University students and privacy freaks are on it. You can't access the regular internet, but there is a whole other internet network available there that is 100% secure...for now. It offers encrypted email addresses, untraceable internet money called Bitcoins and a load of other Internet privacy features and services. There was a recent bust of a billion dollar drug network operating on TOR. The feds never found the guy through the TOR network, but he got sloppy and used the regular internet too much which led to his takedown.


https://www.torproject.org/

 

My guess is that quietly, behind the scenes, Germany and the EU are setting up their own version of the NSA thing, that the scandalous Americans provide a good cover. If any of it gets leaked out, it's "oh, you must be talking about that Edward Snowden thing..." Just speculatin'.

 

So where is your line in the sand, in that case?

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There's the fatal error there.

 

really? I guess you aren't familiar with the latest developments that supposedly will enable tracking TOR users to their original IPs.
You think a criminal haven like Tor will be allowed to survive intact?
Nevertheless, TOR is miniscule and will inevitabely go the way of torrent sites.


Guess you are also not aware of the moves being made against bitcoin.

Or reports of NSA's ability to crack 256bit encryption within hours if not minutes? As far as quantum encryption is concerned I would be willing to bet the farm it will not be widely available.

And what about digital phone calls? text messaging? social media sites?

 

You think I'm nuts for believing it's 100% secure? I've got a present for you Jack. I just logged in and took a screen print. As you can see this page has marijuana, cocaine, LSD and morphine for sale. I don't take drugs but I'm trying to show you what's out there. This is only the first page of many. There are hitmen who advertise on this network. If it wasn't secure, you'd be hearing about the busts all the time. Silk Road, which had a much bigger online store than the one in the print screen, was taken down about a month ago because they busted the leader who used regular email too much. I can be a bit of a privacy freak and that's why I use the network. Open the print screen Jack.

 

My point is that privacy is possible. TOR is private RIGHT NOW. It has its own social media sites although they are much smaller than the regular internet. That's the beauty of the internet. There is almost always going to be something available that will give you security if you really want it. Besides, Obama is going to have to reign in his NSA spying ring if he's going to survive politically. I don't believe big brother is here yet. I think people are too innovative.

 

It's not only in 1984 but it begins at the the dawn of civilization,
the only difference is that spying is so discreet,effective and so refined nowadays.

 

Nuts? No. Over confident? Yes.

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Not really since everyone + their dog now knows about it.

 

Fair enough.

 

Anything you can do, they can do better... as the song goes.

Besides which, I am well aware of such sites, and aside from the fact that you would be close to insane to buy or put anything on there, the fact that Silk Road was really pretty easy to get on to, after a half hour or so, don't ya think such things may just be full of Fed agents etc, by any chance? Perhaps even putting up items for sale, or what not? 'Course it will be.

 

Ah yes, traitors and those who spy and steal secrets and then release this information to the public. Strange, stolen government information is alright to release to the world but a private person's info not released to anybody is wrong.

 

If they don't spy on other nations then they are effectively putting their future in the hands of everybody but themselves. I can't for the life of me understand how some people think that a nation should never verify what other nations are doing and simply believe they should take their word for everything.

"Trust but verify." Regan

 

Oh, I wasn't conceding my point, I was merely agreeing to disagree. I suppose the Feds could post things on there, but I would imagine there is a lot they can't do as Silk Road racked up 1.2 billion dollars in sales before they brought the site down. I have never bought drugs in my life, let alone on a web site, however, most of the transactions used encrypted email, encrypted money (bitcoins) along with the encrypted browsers. I would imagine staying anonymous would be really easy if you used a P.O. Box. It worked for a long time Jack.

 

If you do anything electronic it won't be private to be honest.

I also rather doubt that a serious organisation that intended to do serious stuff are going to have a website and a FB page. I doubt if the IRA at their height would have communicated in such a way. In fact is strikes me as stupid to believe that any serious players would. They probably do well selling all the software and creating all the Gov jobs to apply it though.

These days, you would have more privacy sticking a stamp on an envelope and posting a letter. Low tech.

 

OMG. You aren't listening to me. Silk Road was up for years and it was a 1.2 billion dollar business with a website similar to the one I posted.

 

No. 1984 was specifically written about conditions in the Soviet Union circa 1948. The book was an exploration of Orwell's disenchantment with communism