Dispelling a Myth Regarding Immigration

Say it is a "point of fact" does not make it a fact. A lot of this nonsense is manufactured propaganda to keep the slave ships coming. Those who buy into this garbage would have been naive enough to believe slavery was a good thing.

 

The quote mentioned citizens then you drive off into the weeds hoping no one noticed.

So you believe there are 11 plus million people picking cotton in Texas? I bet those fields are quite crowded.

 

If #1 is true then why isn't the entire population of these third world countries here? You claim they are just allowed to come here so why isn't there even more of them? Answer: Not everyone breaks laws even if they are poor.

#2 and #3 I agree. Those who hire illegals should be heavily fined. That is the law but then the US government isn't enforcing these laws or securing the border. It isn't "us" per se so much as it is the special interests that control the government and churn out propaganda such as "hey, don't blame the ones breaking the laws". Sad.

 

Actually what I pointed out is a fact and I can use the construction industry that employed both Americans and immigrant labor as an example. Due to the Bush economic collapse the new home construction industry took a real dive but it recovering by 2012. Here's what the news was at the time.

About 1 million of those that lost their job in the construction industry were immigrant laborers from Mexico.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/MONE...ction-industry-faces-worker-shortage_CV_U.htm

The jobs returned but hundreds of thousands of the roughly 1.2 million trained American workers that could have filled the jobs had moved on and no longer wanted the jobs. The Mexican immigrant construction workers had returned to Mexico, they'd moved on as well, and they didn't come back to fill the many thousands of job openings in the construction industry. Had they returned they would not have been taking any American jobs that the Americans no longer wanted. Even today, three years later, there's still a shortage of trained construction workers because Americans are choosing to not go into that profession like they used to.

Just because there's a job opening, even a good paying job opening like construction, it doesn't mean that Americans are willing to work at it.

The only people I know of that would like to see slavery return, and that make arguments for it, are social conservatives. You know, groups like the National Organization for Marriage that once implied that black children were better off being raised as slaves in their "Marriage Pledge" that Republican presidential canditates like Michelle Bachmann stumbled over each other to be the first to sign.

 

Posting propaganda does not make it a fact either. Truth is the government cannot track illegal immigrants and neither can the media. Besides the article mentions "immigrants" not illegal immigrants. Big difference.

No social conservatives are not the ones who fought to keep slavery it was democrats. Same today.

 

Illegal aliens are a detriment to America.

 

If it wasn't for our immigration restrictions that are based upon preventing "non-whites" from entering the United States there wouldn't be any "illegal" immigrant workers in the United States.

BTW - Many of the roughly 1 million Mexican construction workers that returned to Mexico and haven't returned were "illegal" immigrants. Once again the problem is the immigration quotas that prevent millions from immigrating for peaceful purposes such as employment (e.g. construction workers) and to be with family because they're MEXICANS! The jobs are here waiting, Americans aren't filling the jobs, but we prevent non-whites from entering the country to fill the job openings. There is, of course, no effective limitation on British immigration because they're whites but the social conservatives continue to yell "By God were not going to let a damn Mexican fill the job opening!".

 

The article does not say illegal. You are making assumptions as well as accusations that immigration laws are "racist". This is total nonsense but thanks for the reveal. This is the first time I have seen anyone claim immigration laws are designed to be racist but it makes sense that some people would believe that. Thanks for your honesty.

 

Most of the "myths" about illegal aliens are the myths that support the lies that say illegal immigration is somehow a good thing. It isn't. There are too many rich people behind illegal immigration because they profit from it or benefit in other ways. This is the reason it has been an ongoing problem for so long.

It isn't that the situation can't be fixed it is just the powers that be are not willing to fix it. There is absolutely no reason for immigration laws not to be enforced and the border secured. Many people want this to happen. Instead of doing what the people want our bought off leaders are making sure nothing gets done while telling everyone how good illegal immigration is for us and how we need this unregulated work force. It is all lies.

 

Of course I know what the 4th amendment says. But my argument is that the premise of the 4th amendment is based on the presumption of innocence. If you argue that it is not, then the 4th amendment should not have been written that way to begin with.

 

No, I believe there are between 11 to 12 million living here who do not have proper immigration status. I have also stated that about half are not working because they are either children or spouses of US citizens or LPR's. This means that they are not working, but are part of a family. The other half or so are working, generally, but are in low skilled jobs such as picking fruit, busing tables, cleaning houses, etc.

 

It really depends on the reason why the person is illegal, not that they are just illegal. Trying to overtly generalize that all illegals are mass murderers, rapists, and drug cartel members is the myth that have perpetuated the debate despite the fact that most are simple, honest folk trying to make a better living for themselves and who happen not to have the immigration status.

 

Your presumption is incorrect. The "presumption of innocence" wasn't even thought of in American jurisprudence until 1898. The 4th Amendment is simply a limitation on the govt and protection from the govt.

 

Really? That sounds like the propaganda put out by the Koch brothers so they can keep their cheap labor. I can tell you for a fact I know where there are illegals working jobs that usually pay $25 an hour. They are not getting paid nearly that much but Americans would be paid that. Sure there are some that do low skilled jobs but this is not always the case.

Again, what I know I see for myself and it does not match what is put out there to fool people into being OK with illegal aliens being in the US. The crimes that illegals commit is being hidden as well as illegals that are abused. It is not a good situation and not the rosy picture painted by those who stand to gain from it.

This election cycle is going to be a turning point for me. I know the situation and I know it is hurting the US. My plan is to wait and see what happens this election. If a candidate is elected that is a puppet of the donor class such as Rubio, Bush, Hillary, Biden etc...then I know people are too blind to see how bad illegal immigration is hurting this country and the situation will never change.

That being said I am looking at starting a business and employing only illegal aliens. I speak Spanish fluently and have trained Hispanics to do fairly technical work. I will pay them little and work the hard like other businesses do. I won't provide benefits and will not have to worry about getting sued.

My belief is why should the rich like Koch brothers be the only ones getting richer from exploiting a situation where many people are so naive. Suckers! I'll make a fortune and move out of the US when it becomes a sewer.

 

Uhm no. The presumption of innocence was thought of long before the Constriction was even a reality. It just was not codified in law, but that does not mean that it has had an impact on the Constitution itself.

 

No, the numbers come from DHS using a redaction methodology to estimate the number of illegals based on a variety of data. That methodology has been the same since the 1980's. In addition, the estimate is published at least once a year, although during the Bush Administration and prior, it was published every month or so.

<Mod Edit><Rule 2>

 

I'm well aware of the fact that the one article doesn't mention "illegal" immigrants but it was unquestionably true that many in the construction industry were immigrants and that some were also illegal immigrants.

While our nation was founded upon the ideology "that all men (people) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" the reality has always been that the political, social and economic structure of the United States has always been based upon White (WASP) Male Supremacy. The very first naturalization law in 1790 only granted US citizenship to Whites and disparaged all other races. Black and women were denied the right to vote even when, at one point, 40 US States and territories protected the Right to Vote for non-citizen White Men. Even today discrimination based upon race and gender is widespread and well documented in the United States. Economically, for example, the median household wealth of Whites (headed by a White Male) is over $140,000 while for the black household it's only about $11,000.

Originally the primary source of immigration were WASP's from England and we had no immigration restrictions. Founders like Washington, Madison, and Jefferson argued that immigration was a right of the person. It wasn't until the demographics of immigration changed to non-WASP's that the first immigration restrictions were imposed and they've never restricted WASP immigration. It wasn't until the immigrant demographics changed from being predominately WASP's to non-WASP's did we see the repeal of laws that protected the Right to Vote for non-citizens being repealed and replaced by prohibitions against non-citizens voting.

All of these changes have been attempts to retain White (WASP) Male Supremacy (i.e. racism) politically, socially, and economically in the United States as the demograhics of America changed over time. Anyone that isn't aware of this has done little reading and has little understanding of American history. Only those that are uninformed about American history don't understand that our immigration laws and voting laws are based upon the social conservative ideology of retaining White (WASP) Male Supremacy politically, socially, and economically in the United States.

 

In point of fact #2 is wrong. US border protection is the "best" it's ever been in US history. Simpy remember a fact that for about the first 100 years the only border protection we had was to prevent invasions and to a much more limited extent to prevent "criminals" from entering the country because we had no immigration restrictions.

Today we have two fundamental ways for a person to enter the country and become an "illegal" alien. The most common is to enter the country legally on a tourist visa through a regulated entry point (i.e. airport, harbor, or border crossing) and over-stay the tourist visa. These individuals are guilty of a minor misdomeanor by over-staying their visa. The other way is to enter by by-passing a regulated entry point that could be accomplished crossing the border from Mexico or Canada or entering by sea from the Pacific or Atlantic oceans. Those doing this are committing a felony. Those with enough money typically enter legally and then over-stay their visa. The really poor often choose to enter illegally by land or sea but it's really hard for a very poor person to enter from Europe or Asia because they can't simply walk into the United States like a person from Mexico or Central America.

We also know that most "illegal" immigrants have a "sponsor" that is already in the United States. People are very reluctant to go where they don't know anyone. This could be a US citizen, legal immigrant, or illegal immigrant that's a friend or family member. Since historically most of the immigrants over the last 100 years have come from Mexico most of the "illegal" immigrants also came from Mexico. That is changing as Asian immigration is on the rise.

Of course building walls isn't going to stop illegal border crossings. Ironically the "Mexicans" are perfecting tunnels (predominately for drug smuggling) while we're building walls. We're a bit stupid sometimes when it comes to wasting vast amounts of money on silly projects that ultimately do nothing at all. If they want to enter illegally they will find a way to do so.

We're also stupid when it comes to addressing the "illegal" immigration problem. As noted in #1 the reason the vast majority enter the country is for the exact same reason our forefathers entered the country. For freedom and economic opportunity. The vast majority of "illegal" immigrants are here for peaceful purposes such as being with family and/or employment that they benefit our economy and society. Logically, to dramatically reduce the "illegal" immigration problem is to allow immigration for peaceful purposes because America has always benefited from that immigration. It's the very reason most of us are here today.

 

It wasn't in American jurisprudence until 1895 (Coffin v United States). It had NO IMPACT on the Constitution AT ALL.

 

that is codifying the law, which is not the same as the foundation or basis or premise of the law to begin with.

 

A visa overstay is not considered to be a minor misdemeanor, they are simply out-of-status (they can apply to adjust status and become within the law) and their only punishment is deportation, once they have issued an order-of-deportation against them, they then become illegally here, with only deportation and a bar to re-entry (3 years to life based on amount of time illegally here) as punishment.

Those that Enter Without Inspection (EWI) are considered to be here illegally and that is considered a Federal Misdemeanor for the first offense and a Federal Felony for the second offense.

 

Those that overstay are considered not in status just as those who come in as EWI. The difference between the two is what application of law can be used to become in status. For EWI, it is very, very restrictive with only TPS, asylee, or refugee status being the only available options. For visa overstays, it depends on the reason why the visa overlapped and most commonly will use the I-539 Form to become back in status. Other options are available based on immediate family adjustment of status.

In both cases, depuration is a remedy to remove the alien. And in both cases, the IJ makes the determination when that date for being out of status starts. If more than 180 days, it is a three year bar and for over a year it is a ten year bar. There is no lifetime ban unless the person has been convicted of a terrorist charge and is permanently removed from US soil while being on the US watch list.

 

It is not the foundation, basis, or premise of the 4th Amendment as you claim.

 

and yet it was as I showed and you stated above.

Glad to see you agree with me.

- - - Updated - - -

Which doesn't change anything I stated.

 

This post is typical of the kind of logical fallacy that too many American allow themselves to be deceived by. To begin with when someone tells you that "immigration is good for the west" you need to ask yourself who is the "west". In economics, like in physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, what benefits one group often comes at the expense of others.
Globalization and the policy of mass immigration has had a huge impact on the US with corporations and the wealthy benefiting, while the working people have suffered greatly.
It is undeniable that the more people you bring into a country will increase overall GDP because those people need to purchase to live, but they also compete with the existing workforce for employment. Labor obeys the laws of supply and demand as any other commodity, and when you increase supply, you decrease demand, and therefore decrease pressure on wages.
So when someone tries to tell you something is good for country, or some such nonsense, realize nothing benefits all the people, and realize which group has a personal interest in the change of policy.