Do we really have justice?all rapists, murderes, and kidknappers should be executed

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Tribearer_Eko, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    Do we really have justice, are the people as safe as they could be?
    Aren't you tired of having to pay taxes to keep rapists, murders, and kidknappers kept in jails?
    Why should they live? they are the corruption of the world. they should not live and take our money, have they not taken the lives of those around us? justice and peace is the death of them. the people would be safer, the offenders would not continue to commit their crimes after being released. These corrupt and evil people should be executed!
     
  2. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    So, a divorced father hasn't seen his children in three years in spite of having visitation rights from the divorce. He takes the children and you think he should be executed.

    So, a young woman meets a young man at a party, they both have a few drinks, or perhaps more than a few, they go to the woman's apartment and have sex, and the next morning the woman wishes she hadn't and calls the police. That is a rape in most states now. Execution.

    I am part of the soon-to-be minority who pay all taxes and I'd be happy if we'd just keep them in jail when it's called for. I realize that for the loony left the murderers, rapists, and kidnappers as well as pedophiles and career criminals are in reality the victims.
     
  3. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    First, as a staff member, I want to welcome you to Political Forum. Now as a member let me respond.

    This is a rather myopic opinion that fails to understand the word "justice" as so many people assume it means something other than what it truly means. They often think it means "an eye for an eye" as an example but that is not what it means. The short definition of justice is, "fairness or reasonableness, especially in the way people are treated or decisions are made."
    When we address the criminal justice system we are addressing whether the process is fair and reasonable in determining if an individual committed or did not commit a criminal act. It isn't about punishment (more on this later).

    When we address the philisophical reasons for government the best possible source, IMO, is the Declaration of Independence, where it states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

    The purpose of government is to secure the Rights of the People and it obtains it's power based upon the Rights of the Individual. It has no authority to "punish" as the People have no Right to punish others. We have a Right to defend ourselves even to the point of holding someone in "custody" if they present a threat to us but we don't have a Right to punish anyone. We can even kill a person that threatens our life as an act of self-defence.

    We, the People, cannot delegate a power to government that we don't possess.

    In providing "justice" it is the role of the government to ensure processes and procedures that provide a fair and reasonable means of determining whether a person has or has not committed a criminal act that violated the Rights of other members of society. If it does that the "Justice" has been served.

    Additionally, if the person receives "Justice" and it is determined that the individual is likely to commit further violations of the Rights of others in society the government has the authority delegated by the People to retain that individual in custody to prevent future violations just as the individual could restrain a burgler in their home that threatened them or their family. We have that Right and can delegate that Right to the government.

    We, the People, do not have the Right to commit the premeditated murder of another person under any circumstances and therefore do not have the Right or authority to delegate that power to the government. This is an indisputable argument against the death penality for any reason. The premediated killing (murder) of an individual is not about justice, it is about revenge, and revenge has no place in society or in our criminal justice system.

    Capital punishment should be abolished in the United States as it violates the ideals established by the Declaration of Independence.
     
  4. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Actually it is not and I've literally sat on a jury related to this very thing and we found the defendant not guilty. The woman was literally so drunk that she couldn't remember whether she'd given consent or not and therefore it could not be established that rape occurred. For rape to occur the prosecution must establish that sex was forced upon the individual against their will at the time. Simply waking up sober in the morning with regrets does not establish that a rape occurred. I don't know of any American jury that would convict a person of rape under such circumstances.
     
  5. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    i am not talking about petty acts like that.i am talking about ppl who murder,rape,and torture,etc. because they like it or for power. can't you see the difference? there are people in jail who don't deserve to live, having taken lives themselves . those who kill(etc.) need to be prepared to be killed themselves. that should be the rule ,and yes there exceptions.
     
  6. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    You can't take back an execution. You can't give compensation to someone who is dead.

    Do you believe that 12 idiots on a jury can really determine, 100% accurately, if someone is guilty or not?
     
  7. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    it's not always like that. And most of the time someone is considered guilty or not by circumstances. If some dad kidnaps his children because he hasn't seen them in forever he doesn't deserve to die, that is just jail time. If some man kills a family because he felt like it he deserves to die.

    " Norway's worst mass killer will be given a jail sentence of only 21 years... and could be on weekend parole in seven"
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nders-Behring-Breivik-21-years-jail-most.html

    An execution is meant to be both compensation, punishment, and protection to the people around us.
     
  8. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Executing rapists is a bad idea. There is nothing to stop the rapist killing his victim.
     
  9. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    either way the end result should be the same, whether or not they kill the victim it is a death sentence. and hopefully with a crackdown on criminals, the offenders will be less inclined to commit the crimes.
     
  10. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    You are aware that in the US, states with the death penalty have a higher rate of murders than those states without it?
     
  11. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    i was not aware.
    And that seems rather counter productive, why would there be a higher rate in states with the death penalty?
     
  12. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    That's because they are allowed to live to 20+ years appealing and so on. China has the best way, straight from the court to the hole...start doing that and see the crime rate drop.
     
  13. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Why? I do not know. What it tells us is that the death penalty does nothing to reduce the number of murders. So if that doesn't work, then we need to find something that does. Life sentences for murder, perhaps?
     
  14. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    It is a persons right to appeal against the sentence he has been given.
     
  15. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't have it, found guilty then its straight to the hole. Oh ant it works VERY well in China.
     
  16. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    You'd be killing a lot of innocent people, then.
     
  17. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    Correction.. Killing a lot of CONVICTED CRIMINALS.
     
  18. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Like Lindy Chamberlain, who was aquitted of murder, but whom you think is guilty.

    The death penalty is NOT the answer.
     
  19. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    yes i like that(the China thing), and that is what i mean. if someone has the death penalty they should not live for 20+ years after that
     
  20. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    all life sentence does is take our tax money, THAT is not the answer
     
  21. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    The death penalty takes your tax money too. Why can't the people who support the death penalty pay for it, and those opposed to it don't have to?
     
  22. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    Cost of a bullet compared to a lifetime of care...mmmm what one is cheaper do you think?


    I would be happy to supply a whole box of bullets to the cause!
     
  23. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    exactly my thought :-D
     
  24. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    If someone is given a life sentence they are no longer part of the community and serve no purpose within that community. Why should that community then have to provide for him for the rest of his life? If he serves no purpose then its fertilizer time...
     
  25. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    They are part of the community. They are still required to vote. They have a voice, and we shouldn't take that away from them.
     

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