Does "Israel" have the right to exist ?

I will tell you one last time.

I do not hate Israel. How can you hate a country anyway...it is a thing?

I do not think I hate anyone. I hate behavior.

I hate the behavior of anyone (Israeli leaders or Palestinian terrorists or any other person(s)) who deliberately kills innocent civilians.


BTW - you are proving my point about you. You seem to decide for other people what they think, even if they tell you otherwise.

Once again, I wonder if you do that in the 'real world'

And once again, I am guessing you do far more often then you think.


Have a nice day.

 

What patently phony B.S.!
You know, I could swear that the Balfour Declaration and the UN Partition mandate of 1947 made it clear that both Israel and the Palestinians would be given their own territory to live on and to have as their own perspective nations to coexist in peace and harmony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

The fact is Jewish leadership through the Jewish Agency said instantly, great, we'll take it! And what did the Palestinian leadership (through the Palestine Arab Higher Committee) say to this? They said NO! Hell no!
And in fact, the minute the British took their troops and went home five Arab armies crossed into the new Palestinian Mandate and sparked the Arab-Israeli War. A wonderfully auspicious and familiar dynamic between the two peoples that have played out ever since.

From that moment on, it's been Palestinians at every single turn who have tried to wipe out the Israeli state and if there is a "blood price" to be paid by Palestinians, it has been exclusively because they have fought the notion of living next to a Jewish state and their misery has been 100% self inflicted.

In fact, Israel is not now, nor never has been, an exclusively Jewish state.
Ask yourself why a quarter of the population of Israel is non Jewish (as you admit) and then ask yourself what is the point of bringing in this Zionist fascist garbage? To smear, obviously. The hate here is so thick it's like peanut butter.
This is even more absurd and pitiful when you consider how many Jews will be in the new proposed Palestinian state...zero! I doubt you condemn the fascists in Palestine, though. Only one party bears blame in your world.

This is frighteningly close to skinhead territory here. Do you post at Stormfront, also? Under what bizarre circumstances do you blame Israel for being an exclusively Jewish state when you've already admitted they are 25% non Jewish? Do you not understand the dichotomy you believe in?
There are Arabs in the Knesset and they comprise 20% of Israel's population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_demography.

People that hate for no good reason are frightening. But those that hate despite the facts are dangerous. Sieg Heil!

 

That's just for the 'Gaza War'. I meant the entire occupation of Gaza.

Actually, I did not realize they poured 7,000(!!!) rounds into the city.
It was worse then I thought.
Thanks for letting me know that.

Whatever the total - I am quite sure the Israeli leaders had a total in their mind before the 'Gaza War' began. (joke of a title - btw. Should be called the 'Palestinian Children Blood Bath' PCBB).
And when they achieved it...or when they felt the international pressure was too much...then they stopped.

Anyone that would order 7,000 rounds of artillery to be fired into one of the most densely populated areas on the planet just to 'hunt down' a few terrorists has got to be at least a little sick.

Joke of a title - btw. 'Gaza War'.
Should be called the 'Palestinian Children Blood Bath' or PCBB.


Have a nice day.

 

perhaps to bury your posts?

camps...........s.s.s.ss.s.s.s..s.

laogai, it is a prison system

gaza is based on bigotry and refugees uprooted because of bigots and illegal possession of a land grab

big difference

because of a religious book.

hell, the torah has more violent crap then all three of the abrahamic sects.

quit playing the fool. The reason there are more muslims on this earth than jewish believers is because human being already know they are not better than another but the pigs still teach that they are better by blood

which we all know is wrong.

grow up as your game is foolishly ignorant

I pointed out that israel is maintaining a concentration camp and you bring in the chinese prison SYSTEM as a contest to the facts of gaza is based on bigotry and hypocracy.

wow, i have seen some stupid posts but yours is a really really stupid method of arguing.

 

I'm not interested in your piddling distinctions. Saying "I don't hate Israel, I only hate what they do to the poor Palestinians"is like saying, I don't hate my mother, only everything she does.
Tell yourself whatever you need to make yourself feel better when you invent Israeli death quotas that you admit you cannot possibly justify or prove. Don't bother posting replies. I'm not interested.

 

mom aint that rude to other human beings, israelis government is.

mom aint lying to mankind about having rights to abuse people

 

I certainly don't have any problem leaving you with your belief that blood-thirsty jooz had a quota of dead Palestinians to meet. I expected no less from you.

The fact still remains that after 2400 air strikes,7,000 artillery rounds, naval and ground operations, tank and helicopter attacks - the number of casualties among the Gaza civilian population was unbelievably incredibly small. Israel's efforts to minimize civilian casualties were unprecedented and they did pay off.

 

The pro-Palestinians supporters seem all to happy to ignore the huge disparity of violance perpetrated against Israel compared to that done by Israel. It makes me wonder if they in reality genuinely afflicted by the same condition with enraptured many Germans under Hitler before WW2. Scary and hopefully not a sign of another major conflict to straighten out the warped ideologies which seem to be so one-eyed and keen to fight.

 

LOLOLOL...they launched 7.000 rounds of artillery into one of the most densely populated areas on the planet to try and kill a few whacko terrorists and you say that is as 'unprecedented' 'effort to minimize civilian casualties'?

Okaaaaaay.


When America wants to kill a terrorist, they get intel and then launch laser guided missiles at individual cars/houses/etc. (for the most part).
What do the Israeli leaders authorize/order (even though they have virtually the same technology)?

They fire 7,000 artillery shells into densely populated civilian areas.

Oh...those Israeli leaders are saints...LOLOLOL.


You have a very nice night now.

 

Blinkered perspective. There was a information campaign prior and during. the reprisals against Gaza were to create a buffer zone along the border to reduce the capability of Hamas to continue attacking Israel from. The population of Gaza was told and given time to move. Hamas's strategy of hiding and operating from within civilian population centers is the actual reason for the IDF's actions. Dont go punching sticks into beehives if you dont want to get stung. Crying about it afterwards and blaming the bees is just a childish move which most adults in the rest of the world can see through as attention seeking and misleading.

 

That's exactly what I am saying. One mortar shell can easily kill dozens, one air strike can just as easily kill hundreds. The fact that for each 5 air strikes and 14 artillery rounds (+navy +tanks +ground ops) there was just one civilian casualty is amazing and does speak of Israel's unprecedented efforts and success to minimize civilian casualties. No other army in the world has ever achieved such incredible results, they have not even come close.

 

I can believe it. I don't think any other army has ever had to operate under such restrictions and under the watchful eyes of the world just waiting to find some atrocity they can pin on Israel (real or manufactured... I mean you, Reuters). Hamas' whole strategy is to provoke the IDF into going crazy on the civilian population. It hasn't worked.

 

Can I post some pics too

 

I fail in understanding why Israel needs to murder innocent civilians simply because it rejects the nation of Palestine. It would be much more logical for Israel to accept its borders next to the nation of Palestine so that both sides can focus on nation building and economic trade instead of rockets.

 

One must view the situation on an individual basis as much as possible. There are just to many unknowns. Some Israelis are peace-oriented, others seek violence. The same applies to Palestinians. Albert Di Salvo seems to be a far-right-winger who seems to support Zionism only due to a hatred of liberals. Some Zionists seem to ally themselves with neo-Nazis to oppose Muslims, while others lean towards the left. Most forum activists who post on behalf of Israel tend to lean towards the far right, but that does not mean that there are not many Israelis who favor a two-State solution. Overall, I'd say that support for Israel often has very little to do with Judaism, considering that most Zionists are Christians. Zionists may argue that they are acting on behalf of Jews, but often the contrary seems to be the case, where it often seems as if Zionists attempt to provoke hostilities against Jews with their praise for violence, Nazi comparisons and European Guilt Complex misuse.

 

5 airstrikes and 14 artillery rounds per death sounds about right to me. I doubt the ratio was all that much different in many other recent conflicts (assuming 'dumb' munitions were used).
During the bombing of Dresden in WW2 - the allies dropped over 200,000 phosphorus bombs and killed 25,000 people - a ratio of about 8 to 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II#The_attacks


So launching 7,000 (mostly?) unguided artillery shells (including white phosphorus) into one of the densest populated areas in the world is your idea of 'unprecedented efforts and success to minimize civilian casualties'?

Okaaaaaaay...noted.


You have a nice day now.

 

As usual you frame your post in a passive/aggressive disingenuous manner so there is nothing really to say.
Maybe Palestinians should decide that fighting since 1947 because they will never accept a Jewish state has only brought them misery and failure.
The Partition Mandate was accepted by Israel and rejected by the Arabs.

Once again, you have things precisely backwards.

 

1.5 million civilians living in an area 25 miles long by 4-7.5 miles wide. The sixth most populated place on the planet. Over 10,000 people per square mile.

Move where?

The Mediterranean Sea?

 

Instead of endlessly blasting the hated Semites with racist hostility, why not examine one's own faults and accept the nation of Palestine instead of justifying the murder of the innocent?

Most Palestinians are embracing peace, nonviolently seeking for the international recognition for their nation next to Israel. Yet, sadly, your response to such is to blast them with uncontrolled and unconditional racist hatred. Thanks Uncle Sam. The US government is a failure on middle eastern politics.

 

Yes I know you're right just needed to vent my spleen lol

 

The entire region of Gaza was not blanketly bombarded! One side of the argument needs to get real.

 

Thats easy to explain, they werent murdering innocent civilians. Once you break through your bias and accept this the real world starts to make sense.

You Pro-Hamas crowd do realize the IDF was also inside Gaza and the resultant damage within Gaza is caused by both sides and not just the Israelis.

 

Yosh Shmenge, with all due respect I have much to say to the usual suspects that tarnishes our forum with their lies and falsehoods. That goes double when they reply in an a aggressive arrogant disingenuous manner (I deleted the passive deliberately). I and other Israel friendly members have endured their lies and mistruths for as long as I have been posting here, and while I am not an Israeli I do have friends going back over ten years in the capital and other areas in Israel. First Judge should realize that Hamas and other terrorists murder, people dying in war is not murder. Killing in self- defense is not murder. Killing by accident is not murder. If that were the case then every nation on earth is guilty of murder.

In any case, as you pointed out Yosh, the usual suspects indeed have it backwards. They can not get through their successfully brainwashed heads that nations who win territory in war do not in the majority of cases give back that territory*, ESPECIALLY when that land could be used as the high ground to attack Israel !

* Israel gave the Sinai Peninsula that she won in the 67’ war to back to Egypt. So Israel is morally and ethically ahead of the game already.

Most people that do not debate these things ie ‘the world opinion’ are really clueless to what is at stake and what a real negotiated peace entails. There are NO shortcuts to peace. Why? Because of the many unresolved issues that would come back to destroy any UN decreed peace. Just consider; If Palestine is recognized in the U.N. and borders were redrawn to rob Israel of its land, Israel would only be nine miles wide at one critical point. NINE MILES! Considering the history of the area, all the Arab nations ganging up against Israel, Hamas goons lobbing short range rockets into Israel would equivalent to the USA giving an Al Qaeda infected African state the states of Montana, Utah, Colorado, California, and Nevada ! It’s unbelievable that a sane man/woman would agree to that situation OR that Israel should give up strategically critical land to the Hamas infected fantasy nation of Palestine!

Lastly Israel wants negotiated PEACE. Israel nor any other nation would agree to peace by decree of an impotent organization like the UN! Without an NEGOTIATED PEACE there will be no lasting peace. The way peace is achieved is first negotiate THEN go to the UN. Not the other way round’ which the supporters of Palestine want to do, which is peace VIA the back door, which is no peace at all.

Rev A

 

OH NOOoooo Mr Bill, not the hated Semites again! Ha~ ha I love it, because it demonstrates the authors grasp on the subject. An author I am usually in total disagreement with. And there is more! Mr Judge tells us they are hated with; with “racist hostility“…. what race is being 'blasted'? And who exactly are the 'hated Semites' ?

Here allow me before my spleen accidentally vents (ie i chit' my drawers) ;

Sem·ite [sé mt]
(plural Sem·ites)
n
1. member of Semitic-speaking people: a member of any of several Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East, including the Arab and Jewish peoples <<<<relevant section excerpted by me Rev A

So if you are saying that the Jewish people are and have been as history amply shows are a hated and persecuted race of people you are correct!

Rev A

 

Yeah...like you.

You typed...'Hamas's strategy of hiding and operating from within civilian population centers is the actual reason for the IDF's actions.'

Then according to you, the terrorists will move with the civilians. So what good is moving going to do for the civilians?
At least in their homes they have some protection from the shelling - as opposed to tents out in the open.

What you don't (are not capable of?) realizing is you don't throw 7,000 unguided artillery shells at densely populated areas to flush out a few dozen terrorists.
Not unless you want to be called terrorists yourselves or don't mind being accused of genocide.

The fact you have no problem with it tells us all we have to know about you.


Have a nice day.