Does the cost of the war in Ukraine exceed the benefits?

You make a lot of accusations but don't offer much proof.

Even thought U.S. is the greatest Nation ever on earth, one thing is crystal clear you don't like anything about it.

It's a big world you know.

 

I'm not here to hold your hand and educate you about the history of the conflict in ukraine. I suggest watching "ukraine on fire" a documentary by Oliver Stone.

And to think this all started because some butthurt mental midgets in the Obama/Biden administration didn't like the Democratically elected President of a sovereign country choosing a loan from Russia instead of the IMF. Russia offered a better deal. So much for capitalism

 

That's good, since you don't know ShitFromShineola about it.

Well at least you've offered the Stone movie, still make many accusations and back nothing up. But, have no qualms about putting words in peoples mouths and continually and constantly denigrate the Country I love. There are many sides to a rational debate; but you are not rational, your goal is to tear down what it's taken 240 years to build. Why on earth would I care what you say? Bye now.

 

Go watch the movie and investigate the financial bailout sought by ukraine in 2013-14. Learn something. Learn why Congress 'banned' funding to the azov nazis way back in 2018. Or **** off, I really don't care. People that support war against a nuclear power that could destroy the US are my enemies.

 

@JohnHamilton - I'm not angry, I simply disagree. I don't know the future, I simply have my opinion, the same as you.

The GOP has held the House for about twice as many years as the Dems, since 1994, but when the Dems have control, they get things accomplished, while we're in control, we don't really advance the ball or we cave, then they get back in and advance some more. The result is steady movement Left.

 

I didn't know there were Chinese illegals entering the country!

There is an internal demand for cheap labor in this period of low unemployment and booming economy. US employers are glad to see these illegals coming in and accepting jobs in their factories and offices.

 

As per your usual narrow-mindedness. We are not "buying" a friend; wer're simply helping another country to gain its freedom and join the endangered species of democratic countries. Every country lost to an autocratic regime increases the danger for all democraties in the world.
But I guess this is too high above your MAGA head.

 

The best way to avoid this possibility is to help Ukrainians push the Russians back out of the Ukraine territory.

Since his now famous speech at a Munich conference in 2007, it is now clear that Putin wants to rebuild as much of the USSR "empire" as he can; he's already started with parts of Georgia, Moldovia and now Ukraine.

After Ukraine, he may not try to have a go at Poland rightaway, but he will foment trouble in the small Baltic countries to start with.

And as these small countries have an important minority ( up to 30-35%) of Russians and russian-speaking people that moved there during the USSR era, he will easily find a pretext to "come to the rescue" of these "endangered compatriots", just like he did in 2 Ukrainian provinces, after he fomented trouble there.

Putin only understands strength and brute force; if you merely hesitate to block his way, he'll move on.

 

I generally agree with you, but I think Garyd has a point here: Putin might own Ukraine before winter, but he might not be able to actually "control" it.

 

The Democrats have a steely control over their members. You vote the way the leadership tells you to vote or they neuter you. You can go extreme left in the Democrat Party, like “The Squad,” but you can’t be very conservative. Increasingly you can’t even be moderate in the Democrat Party. John Fetterman deserves credit for being as outspoken as he has been during his time in the Senate.

 

The big problem for the GOP when it has held the House has been leadership. The best period was under Newt Gingrich. That’s when the Republicans had a coherent program and got things done, but the Democrats manufactured a scandal to push him out. Since then it’s been bad to worse. The worst were Dennis Hastert and Paul Ryan. They might as well have been Democrats. Ryan was a real snake in the grass.

 

Oh, please. The U.S. GDP for 2022-2024 will be around $80t dollars. The $75b in support for the Ukraine is 0.09375% of our GDP.

$1 out of every $10,000?

The U.S. is "running out of money", and how are they going to fund the next major war? It's just astounding there are so many people in the public who are so stupid they can't understand that.[/QUOTE]


The U.S. is not in a "fiscal crisis."

The thought of us selling out the Ukraine, then leaving doubt we're committed to allies like Taiwan, Japan and Europe, could become a political disaster of WW2 proportions.

 

All this killing can stop today if Putin go back to his country.

What you are saying is , Russia has Nuclear weapon so they can do whatever they want because we are too chicken to stand up to nuclear power.

 

God Bless America.

I think now that Finland is part of NATO, we should build up a million NATO army near Russian border.

I realized some anti-American US citizen loves Putin but the majority of us don’t.

Oh I too am “independent thinker” and I don’t take order from mother Russia.

 

Being a skeptic is fine, but you're going in a risky direction when you misjudge the situation as you have. Ukraine is fighting off a Russian invasion.

 

Why go back to the Ottoman empire? The whole world has been constantly changing :many populations have moved from one "owner" to another in history. It should be noted that, at the last free election in 1991, the people of Crimea voted in the majority for independance from Russia, like all the other Ukraine provinces.

Putin's aggression on Ukraine started in 2014. I can't believe that you'd be ready to reward him for his aggression by leaving him a trophy. It's also a matter of principle.

When returning to Ukraine, Crimea would not remain depopulated for very long. Russia spent the last 10 years sending thousands of military personnel and their families to the province; in view of the pleasant climate, no doubt it will attract back many Ukrainians, as well as tourists. Crimea has long been a holiday destination, not only for Russians, but for people of neighbouring countries.

 

Russia lost 500K of their own men and women in this war. Yes , that is a lesson Russia will remember for very long time. It is very, very short sighted to think that kind of casualty will not impact Russian internal politics.

 

Excellent analysis! Just one little remark: there is no such thing as "an ex-KGB" agent!

 

Russia started this war when it invaded Ukraine for the second time in less than a decade.

/end thread

 

Putin was a low level politician when Clinton was POTUS. So you need to read up your Russian history.

 

Anotherone of Putin's false pretexts; he has enough spies all over the world to be aware that no "scary weapons" have been installed on Russia's borders since the implosion of USSR in 1991.

As you know, or at least should know, NATO is a defensive alliance.

 

So what?

And, by the way , it was not Stalin but Krouschtchev who re-attached Crimea to Ukraine.

 

When all else fails there is always insult.

 

They lost to Afghanistan, so what on earth made them think they'd win in Ukraine?

 

It is not a NATO war.

BS. We are the preeminent world power because of the American people, not the American government.

I looked closely. It is not.