Economic reality check

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Pro_Line_FL, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And those tariffs are going away to the benefit of US workers.
     
  2. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Trying to protect one segment of US workers at the expense of the rest of us doesn't help. Tariffs are economically destructive.
     
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  3. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    23% decline in US exports to China does not benefit anyone, and it is a direct results of Trump economic policies. It's the exact opposite of what he was hoping for, since he wanted to decrease imports from China, while increasing US exports to China.
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy Acosta is my friend and he wants to know.

    Give me a post number. Danke.
     
  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of that matters, for if they did, Perot would have been heeded. He told us what offshoring our living wage manufacturing jobs would do to average americans, and he was spot on. And it was common sense really. Something DC has no place for, along with dems and repubs who were too dense to understand what happens when you offshore your industrial base and replace it with low wage service sector jobs.

    It was easily predictable, and Perot did that along with other americans who have the ability to think. Just not repub and dem voters.
     
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  6. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s not what Trump is doing.
     
  7. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the above is why Trump was elected.
     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    That's what nearly all tariffs do. And yes, that is what he's doing. He's put up tariffs to try to protect American steel workers and automotive manufacturers, for example. Unconstitutionally, I might add.
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Importers pay the tariffs. Tariffs tend to raise prices. That hurts, the exporter, the importer and the consumer. The advantage to the government is additional revenue. The benefit to our economy is that tariffs tend to make domestic manufacturers more competitive. Instead of sending wealth abroad, Tariffs tend to recover wealth to our economy.

    Nevertheless, the ideal is free trade which doesn't exist. The purpose of the Trump tariffs is to motivate China to change some of its policies and reduce Chinese tariffs on American made products. Whether it works or not, is yet to be determined.
     
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  10. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    You were correct up until that last sentence. Buying imports does not "send wealth abroad." It creates wealth for the seller and the purchaser. Tariffs and other government interventions destroy this wealth, aka deadweight loss. The tariffs are meant to direct more wealth to special interest groups, but they interrupt a greater wealth for the country as a whole.
     
  11. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Chinese economy is slowing down which is why their imports are down.
     
  12. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. Our politicians in the past have argued for free trade on our imports but have completely ignored free trade on our exports thus causing great economic damage to our middle America workers. Trump recognized this and campaigned on it and was elected because of this issue.
     
  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He is using tariffs and the threat of tariffs as a stick to reduce trade restrictions on US exports.
     
  14. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Politicians have fought for both. Trump campaigned on sound bytes, not real strategy or even elementary economic understanding. He still thinks trade is a zero-sum game and that trade deficits are a net monetary loss, like a monetary deficit. Most Econ 101 classes cover why this is incorrect.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    He's gone back and forth on this. First he said he was using tariffs to try to get some kind of equality of outcome on trade deficits, then he said he was using them to try to reduct tariffs all around. The later has been proven false as he's refused to reduce our tariffs even when our trade partners have offered to reduce theirs.

    Trump is stuck in the economic superstition of the zero-sum game. He thinks that imports take wealth away from us and exports provide wealth. In other words, he's stuck in pre-1776 economic theory.

    Regardless, the tariffs hurt the US. He's shooting us and the other guy in the foot and hoping they bleed out faster.

    Reducing restrictions on US exports would be a good thing, though prioritizing exports freedom over import freedom reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Those imports create wealth for this country. Interrupting them destroys wealth for this country.
     
  16. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And because they imposed new tariffs as a response to Trump tariffs.

    Is a 23% decline in US exports to China good or bad for US?

    Before you hurt, or eliminate your trading partners, you should always ask how it will impact your own situation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The claim was that China was manipulating it's currency. But as you can see it is pretty stable against other markets.
    But having said that Trump has been on both sides of the issue as usual.

    upload_2019-3-8_9-31-0.png

    As usual the strongest evidence comes from Trump.

    New York (Reuters) - The dollar fell from a one-year peak to trade just slightly higher on Thursday after U.S. President Donald Trump expressed concern about a strong currency and the Federal Reserve’s interest rate increases.
    ----------
    This is not the first time that Trump voiced his displeasure with a strong dollar. He told the Wall Street Journal on three separate occasions last year that the dollar was “too strong.”

    Omer Esiner, chief market analyst at Commonwealth Foreign Exchange, said Trump’s comments on interest rates and the Fed are significant because they have crossed a historic line that previous presidents have not.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-year-high-after-trump-comments-idUSKBN1K903W
     
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They buying less scrap metal? Not that long ago, this was our primary export to china.

    China protects china, but our gov't on behalf of our elites stopped protecting america and working amercians from slave labor as our founders and most other presidents til reagan's admin. did.

    That is the gist of it.
     
  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of the time he said US wages are too high.
     
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  20. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s absolutely incorrect. Trump wants fair trade which in its purest form is free trade which dors not result in zero trade deficits. He is acting to reduce restrictions on US imports but importantly will also protect US workers from Chinese government subsidies resulting in artificially low prices on Chinese imports to the US. That’s why he won the electoral college.
     
  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When was that ??
     
  22. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump’s message has been crystal clear. And that is why he won the election. The left still doesn’t understand this.

    Your fundamental mistake shared by politicians of both parties is that it’s to the benefit of the US to import Chinese products which are low priced due to Chinese government subsidies. China’s objective is to damage the US economy. This is a great way to do it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  23. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Wrong on almost every count. Trump is absolutely obsessed with trade deficits and has characterized them as monetary losses. He pays lip service to free trade but his actions and other words show he is against it. He's a protectionist. And he has unilaterally bypassed Congress's Constitutional powers to restrict imports in the US.
     
  24. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Those of us who have actually payed attention to him disagree. And I'm to the right of Trump on economics. There's a reason he relied only on leftist sources on the campaign trail.
     
  25. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    • The top export categories (2-digit HS) in 2017 were: aircraft ($16 billion), machinery ($13 billion), miscellaneous grain, seeds, fruit (soybeans) ($13 billion), vehicles ($13 billion), and electrical machinery ($12 billion).
      • U.S. total exports of agricultural products to China totaled $20 billion in 2017, our 2nd largest agricultural export market. Leading domestic export categories include: soybeans ($12 billion), cotton ($978 million), hides & skins ($945 million), coarse grains (ex. corn) ($839 million), and pork & pork products ($662 million).
      • U.S. exports of services to China were an estimated $57.6 billion in 2017, 4.9% ($2.7 billion) more than 2016, and 339% greater than 2007 levels. It was up roughly 973% from 2001 (pre-WTO accession). Leading services exports from the U.S. to China were in the travel, intellectual property (trademark, computer software), and transport sectors.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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