I could provide numerous scriptures that, IMO, debunk this false doctrine, while those who believe it could provide some scriptures that "appear" to claim it. While this thread will likely devolve into a pissing match as to which is right, I want to get everyone's view on what they really think of this doctrine. What sense does it make? Do you really believe it is justifiable? Is it sadistic no matter who implements it? Does it reflect a just and loving God? I don't care whether you believe it to be true or that you assume It is justifiable beyond your comprehension, I want you to justify it from a humans perspective. I want your true, thought out opinion of it.
There is a presentation given by Alexander Kalomiros about your topic and which is very influential in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is best to read the whole thing if you are interested in this topic, but in deference to our short attention spans in this degenerate age, I will give the brief answer to your question. Paradise and Hell are the same things. All men are loved by God. There is never a separation. But a man will experience either Paradise or Hell depending on his response to that love. He who loves God in return experiences Paradise. He who hates God experiences Hell by being forced to live in God's presence. http://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/the-river-of-fire-kalomiros/
Malachi 4: 1-3 4 “For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” Says the Lord of hosts, “That will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves. 3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,” Says the Lord of hosts. This does not reflect eternal torment. Matthew 10:28New King James Version (NKJV) 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. This establishes that souls can die. Ezekiel 18:20 (KJV) The soul that sinneth , it shall die . The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Wicked souls die. Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Are they still burning? 2Peter 2:6 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly; An example for the wicked. They are made ashes. Revelation 20:14King James Version (KJV) 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. John 3:16New King James Version (NKJV) 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not "perish" but have everlasting life. Romans 6:23New King James Version (NKJV) 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Death here is of the soul. Notice it is in contrast of eternal life. Sinners do,not get eternal life by torture. Again, this thread is not about proving it or debunking it. I want to know your true opinion of its righteousness. Stop hiding behind the nonsense that God is so just that he can torture humans for eternity.
Nonsense, the bottom line is that God created man. God created hell(church false doctrine). If it is true(isn't)God is completely responsible for the multitudes that he tortures.
Obviously you're not aware of this but you didn't provide any evidence that Hell doesn't exist. Try again?
The hell you think exist is the realm of the dead(Sheol) of the Old Testament and a trash/offering burning dump(Gehenna) near Jerusalem. Jesus referenced Gehenna(the burning dump) as an example of the lake of fire. There is no eternal Hell. Sheol/ Hades(realm of the dead awaiting resurrections) are cast into the lake of fire and consumed at the second death(of the wicked). Modern teachings claim the wicked are tormented in the lake of fire for eternity. This is an absurd doctrine. You still have not addressed the OP. Whether you believe it exist or not, what is your honest, thought out opinion of this doctrine/torture concept?
Actually, it is like ISIS burning a man in a cage, except he suffers it for trillions and trillions and trillions of years. This is the nonsense most Christians believe and seem complacent with it. They may as well bow to satan as cult followers.
Well, you asked for well thought out opinions on the matter, and I gave you one. Doesn't seem like nonsense to me, though. God is not responsible if we humans have a free choice in the matter. If I go out in the pouring rain without an umbrella and get wet it hardly seems to be God's fault.
The idea of an eternal torture chamber called hell is incoherent with a God of Love. There has to be coherence with any belief system, and clearly the belief that there is an everlasting hell is incoherent and can be negated and discarded. But it does serve, or has served, as a mechanism of fear that brings in church members and the money.
You make it look like you might have a set of statistics that will support that claim regarding most Christians. Do you have such statistics or are you merely guessing?
Don't be ridiculous. Maybe it is where I live, but I know of no Christians who do not believe in eternal torment and even wish it upon some people. It is the modern teaching and I don't know of anyone who disbelieves it or admonishes it.
I agree. Eternal torment would not reflect a righteous being. My contempt for this false doctrine is that it makes Christianity look like a cult and God as a sadist. It has likely caused more rebuke than saved souls.
Are you saying that humans purposely choose to go to an eternal torture? Even Jesus's disciples were not fully convinced until his resurrection. It makes no sense for current humans to be convicted of purposed denial when they have had no evidence of God to begin with. My question remains, do you believe eternal torture is a deserved punishment for humans?
Did you ever stop to consider that some of those people who claim to be Christians might not be Christians according to Gods standards? Even the 'Bible' attests to that condition. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
There's no evidence here that Hell doesn't exist. Nobody is hiding. The important thing to know is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. They go on their own accord. We are all given a way out. We can either accept it or not.
Sheol isn't Hell. This is the mistake that many such as you make when discussing Hell, i.e. the trash dump. The reference that you miss is that there is an eternal fire and Jesus, who is God, made that very clear. Do you know what Gehenna was before it was a trash dump? Do you know how it got it's name? No you don't but I'm sure you do a Google search and make it look like you know.
Unfortunately, IMO, most Christians just accept what preachers say and like mindless sheep believe if God does it it has to be righteous.
I assume you are talking about it being a place of human sacrifice. And yes, the bible uses the world hell in replace of Sheol in the Old Testament. Jesus was using Gehenna as a reference to a consuming fire/worms that were an ongoing event at Gehenna. Does not mean the destruction is neverending. Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed with an eternal/everlasting flame, but they no longer exist and the flames are gone. Again, you are avoiding the purpose of this thread.
Perhaps you'd do better to question whether it's just and loving for you to provide an assurance the truth of which you have no direct knowledge.
