Evacuation Plans

Discussion in 'Survival and Sustainability' started by Mushroom, May 6, 2013.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    One part of survival that most people never think of is evacuation. And after the debacle of Katrina, it has taken almost a decade for New Orleans to get serious about this, but they finally are.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/0...points-arriving-in-new-orleans/#ixzz2SXRLcRVu

    [​IMG]

    I actually think this is a pretty ingenious idea. It passes as art, is immediately recognizable, and hopefully gets people to actually think of evacuation and getting out of the way of a disaster instead of waiting in their homes like sheep.
     
  2. Alucard

    Alucard New Member Past Donor

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    Evacuation procedures are important. I like that statue by Douglas Cornfield.
     
  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In Australia most people have evacuation plans for fire threat, at least in areas where fires are most likely. I live near the beach so that is where we'll go, as far as survival kit goes I'm very much unprepared...probably because I'm not in a high risk area... should get onto it though, at least have a list of what to grab
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Well, one thing I would say is that nobody is not in a "high risk area". Everybody should be able to be able to provide all basic needs for their family for at least 7-10 days without leaving their house. Food, water, medications, required items (diapers, etc), lights and batteries (radio, etc), this should be maintained by everybody at all times.

    If there is anything that history has taught us, that is that nowhere is really safe. Earthquakes, tropical cyclones, tornadoes, fires, tsunamis, volcanos, even man made-caused ones like plague-disease, chemical disasters, terrorist attacks and war. I am sure that nobody was thinking anything unusual at Port Stanley when they went to bed on 1 April 1982. Only to wake up the next day that they would find themselves now as part of an occupied territory.

    And no, I do not consider myself a paranoid person. But realize that I have been through 3 major earthquakes, and multiple other disasters including Katrina and at least 5 other major hurricanes. And after each one of these since I reached adulthood, I wondered at the people now scrambling for things like water, batteries, formula, medications, and the like because they were not prepared.

    The morning of the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, my neighbor was upset because he had 2 babies on formula and the water was now unsafe to drink. I gave him 4 gallons of water, which took him through the first 2 days until water distribution points were finally up and running. Even in LA we saw water which had gone for $1 a gallon the day before the earthquake to $5 a gallon and more the day of and after.

    I do not encourage people to build bunkers and prepare for the zombie apacolypse, just have enough supplies for 1-2 weeks to give the local authorities time to respond to whatever may happen. If it takes them longer then that, odds are things are so FUBAR that nothing will help.

    If you have time, evacuation prior to a disaster is always best. But that is not always possible, so being prepared to get by a few days is mandatory to me. It can be something as simple as a few cases of bottled water, shelf stable food (I find ramen is a good one), a small bottled propane stove, and a battery powered radio and a solar battery charger. All told you can provide the requirements for a family of 4 for under $100 that way and last over a week.
     
  5. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I live in Arizona but have a sailboat docked in California fully outfitted for survival. I only need six hours to get to it and odds are I will know of any problem brewing and will be far out to sea when it blows up. I can make my own water and fish for most of what I need. It is fully stocked with medicines I need and I know where to go to avoid people.

    I could stay out there for years if I needed to.
     
  6. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not much of an Apocalyptist, never bothered me, but for the first time ever I'm considering the topic seriously, the reason is superbugs resistant to antibiotics. The problem is if you're going to need any supplies you're vulnerable to these bugs, so complete isolation like your sailboat would be the solution. And god help you if you need a hospital, cause that's the last place you'll want to be.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36396663

    Superbugs Could Soon Kill Someone Every 3 Seconds, According to New Report

     
  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will be isolated out there so the only problem is getting to the boat in time. If it's an outbreak I will head probably to Antarctica where the cold will kill the disease or at least help prevent it.

    And I have radios that require no power so I can hopefully hear when the threat is over.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I am not a "survivalist" in the conventional sense of the word at all.

    I am not preparing for the zombie apocalypse, nor for WWIII. In my mind preparing for such an event is either stupid, or impossible. One is never going to happen, the other is impossible to prepare against.

    However, having survived several disasters (hurricanes and earthquakes), one thing I have learned is that my preperations have made the difference between living in a tent city on the sufferance of whoever comes to provide relief, and being able to provide my own needs and not having to have to live in those hellholes. relying on somebody else to take care of me.

    Now if anybody was to ask me the main dangers, I would list them as natural disasters, and disease. Those are the only 2 that most people will ever have to worry about. And at a minimum, should be able to survive at least 5-7 days on their own as a minimum, 30-45 as an optimum. Because pretty much any disaster that goes longer is unsurviveable to the vast majority of the people in this country for various reasons.

    Now for natural, I have already discussed these. Hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, fires, etc. In this I am even including some man-made types, like chemical spills and the like. But one thing that everybody should be aware of, the Yellowstone Supervolcano is past due for a major blow-up. And it has been increasingly active in the past few decades. And do not be fooled, this will be a global disaster when it happens. I do not care if you live in NYC or Melbourne, this disaster will impact you dramatically. Global cooling, not to mention shortages of almost everything from food and fuel to medicine will result. But it may happen next year, or in 2250.

    But the one that worries me most is plague. You mention "super bugs", that is the least of your worry. The planet is actually currently in what is the longest period without a major epidemic outbreak in the last 2,000 years. Probably the last one was the "Spanish Influenza" at the tail end of WWII. In that epidemic, an estimated 75-100 million people died, and life expectencies dropped by 12 years. This was the last time in the "civilized world" that we saw mass graves a common event. Almost 5% of the human population on the planet died in that outbreak, and it ravaged the planet.

    And we have not had a major outbreak of disease since then.

    The problem with thinking of a "super bug" is that most people do not realize that there is not a damned thing we can do if a virus outbreak occurs. Sure, the biggest scourages of the past (Bubonic Plague, Black Death, etc) can be easily treated with modern antibiotics. But if we get a major outbreak of a virus (say a slower acting Ebola or wider spreading Measels with a slower incubation rate), then we could very easily have a major pandemic on our hands, and the medical community would be helpless to stop it.

    Because in all the thousands of years of medical advance, humans have never once been able to cure a virus.

    But being prepared to even minimize (if not eliminate) outside contact could mean the difference between life and death in such an event.

    Myself, my 3 biggest worries are the following 3:

    1. Earthquake (I live in California, 10 years ago when I lived in Alabama it was Hurricane).
    2. Pandemic (I know the historical record of these things).
    3. Yellowstone Caldera.

    I worry much-much less about WWIII, or zombies rising from the grave and taking over the planet, or an alien invasion of lizards from Tau Ceti II. As always, my main concern is getting through the first 2 weeks of any major event that can impact my chance of survival.

    And currently, I am actually preparing to drop around $150 on the purchase of my next bit of survival gear. A high-powered air rifle, with both .177 and .22 barrels. Included is a 4x scope, which will make it great for small game hunting. Silent, with a large amount of ammo which makes it cheap to shoot and easy to stockpile and carry. This is what I would use to acquire food in the field if required, saving my more conventional weapons (.22 rifle and .380 pistol) for the 2 legged varmits.

    Plus air rifles are simply fun to shoot. You can fire a thousand rounds or so through one for less money then you would spend for a single meal at a fast food place.
     
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Some what mistaken here.

    A virus can be an amazingly hard thing to kill. And cold generally does not do it, it just goes dormant. However, the isolation would more then likely prevent you from coming in contact with any carriers.

    And radios that require no power, I assume you mean a crystal radio? Well, largely restricted to the AM band, and rather short range (plus you have to listen through an ear piece). I have not made one in years myself, but I have been considering making one to add to my kit. Or if nothing else the parts I would need, that would give me something to do after all.
     
  10. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    There are hand crank radios I suppose.

    They have built in generators.

    I'd be more concerned about taking a small boat to the South Pole myself. The World's roughest seas are around the Drake passage.
     
  11. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you, that was very thorough & informative

     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever owned one? I have (along with the "shake flashlights". I bought a few back in 1994 as part of my kit.

    And shortly afterwards sold them in a yard sale.

    Trust me, they are utter crap. I one time spend 30 minutes cranking the radio, and could listen for an entire 5 minutes before it died. Flashlights were no better. Yes they have "generators", but their output is a complete joke. Better to get a good radio (even an inexpensive one like the Sangean at $50) and a solar recharger and ample batteries than one of those pieces of crap.

    And yes, I recommend a unit with shortwave capability. In a major disaster you may not have local radio stations available to listen to, but the shortwave ones can reach much further. And give you information that is not available on local stations. Often times giving a "macro-view" as opposed to the "micro-view" that you will get from stations in your area.

    To give an idea, in LA in 1994 all we heard on local radio was the local information. That was all well and good, but what was the effect in other areas? Not an issue in an earthquake, but what if it had been a much more widespread disaster? Then there is the opposite, where after Katrina everything was about New Orleans, and little about our local area.

    True story, in 1990 I was at home with my wife shortly after I returned from deployment. While I was gone, I had picked up a little Sanyo Boombox with SW stations (impossible to find in the US, actually common overseas).

    [​IMG]

    I set it up at home with a "field expediant OE-254" I made with wire and plastic spoons and was listening to it with my wife one night. We scanned various stations, including Radio Moscow, Voice of America, "The Beeb", and others. Finally towards the end of the night we were listening to Radio Barcelona, and she perked up. Seems that Iraq was invading somebody, and that there were large numbers of deaths occuring. We listened for about 30 minutes, and she was translating as they went.

    I went into the house, turned on CNN, and they were saying... nothing. An hour or so also we went to bed, CNN still saying nothing about this "invasion" so I assumed it was a joke or something.

    Next morning I go to base, and now everybody is talking about the Invasion of Kuwait. It took CNN something like 4 hours to start to report it, even though sources in Europe had been at it long before. That made me a strong believer in Shortwave radio. And since you can get decent portable SW radios (with AM/FM/Weather) for around $50, to me it is a wise investment.

    Heck, even the CB radio in my truck has weather bands on it. I decided the extra $30 it cost me was worth it in the long run. To bad I could not get the wife to believe me when we drove through the Sierras in February with a storm front moving in. :D
     
  13. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    I've never a owned a hand crank radio or any sort of device. I brought it up because I thought maybe that's what the poster was thinking of when he mentioned he has radios requiring no power. Solar is another alternative too I suppose, as long as it's not cloudy a lot. If you live in the Pacific NW, they have extensive cloud cover for much of the year. Solar won't do you much good there.

    If your boat is moving sufficiently, I suppose you could lower a device into the water that generates power by rotating a shaft, similar to a water wheel generator.

    I bought a 1970s era Hitachi SW/AM/FM (8 band) radio at a garage sale many years ago for around $40.

    [​IMG]

    It's a beast. It weighs probably 12 pounds minus batteries, but it's fun to see what sort of stations I can pick up. I regularly pick up China, usually get better reception at night.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Notice I mention a solar charger and many batteries.

    It takes around 8 hours for a solar charger to completely charge 4 AA batteries. Get up in the monring, put in 4 batteries. 8 hours later replace them with 4 more batteries. Most radios can work 8-12 hours off of a single set of batteries, so as long as you have extras you can keep ahead of the number of batteries needed as opposed to those on-hand.

    Those built-in ones generally only provide enough power to charge the radio itself. Spending money for a unit that charges more is a good investment. We have been playing with spending the money for a unit for our trailer, just so that we can spend more time "off the grid" when we take road trips. As it is, we can only spend about 2 days out of 3 without going to a campground to do things like dump the tanks, refil water, and recharge batteries. In a real disaster I know the first 2 do not matter, but the 3rd can be a huge changer.

    And when I was growing up, my first Shortwave radio was an old Zenith Transoceanic my father had given to me. It was awesome, having everything from shortwave and police to weather and aircraft freqs. And in 1980 the first solder kit I ever made was a Tandy shortwave radio reciever.

    [​IMG]

    Oh how I miss that thing. I even built in an AC transformer that let me throw a sqitch and use wall current. And the best antenna I ever owned was when I hooked it up to the 2 mile long chain link fence behind the house. The reception was incredible, I was getting AM radio stations from Chicago in Idaho.

    And today solar chargers are not all that hard to get. For under $100 you can even get one built into a backpack.

    Of course, my survival kit has quite a few electronic gadgets so I always make sure I can keep them powered. 2 short range 2 way radios (with weather), hand held GPS unit, portable shortwave radio, and 2 cell phones (my own and my wifes). Of all of those, only the cell phones are for constant use. GPS, 2-ways and radio are for as needed. But all but the cell phones use standard AA batteries, so keeping them recharged is not all that big of a deal.

    And yea, you can always make a device to try to convert movement through the water to power. But I do not know of any commercial ones, the closest I can think of is what my step-father had on his sailboat to tell the speed. I can picture such a device, can be as simple as a prop attached to a car alternator in a waterproof housing. But then you get into a lot of other things. Waterproofing, fresh or salt water, the effects of different kinds of metal in such an environment, etc.

    Give me the parts and I could probably cobble something together in a few hours, but no guarantee how long it would work. Plus the effects of drag, and if you are becalmed. If you are not moving much, no power. Think of it as a wind generator with no wind. As a former sailor of sailboats, not much is more frustrating then being becalmed for hours on end.

    I have in the past looked into providing power for boats, and most rely on wind not water. And if I was to try and to design such a system, that is how I would go also. Knowing what is involved in tapping movement through water for a power source (including such things as galvanic action), I would opt for a system that did not involve putting anything into the water to be honest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

    If you understand this, check out someday a cute passage in Tom Clancey's book "Without Remorse". In it he has a passage about new saltwater boat owners who have their propellor disintigrate. When an expert comes alongside and offers to help he is then told that ithe prop fell apart because their "zincs" needed replacing. The chagrined owners said they had been told that, but thought the guy at the boat shop had said "sinks".

    Water tends to corrode differing metals at a high rate, so steel touching aluminum and brass tougching copper corrode faster then iron touching iron. This is "galvanic action) (and what is used to make "Galvanized steel" - like in trash cans). Zinc galvinizes faster than other metals, so having "zincs" on a boat helps protect the other metal components. But considering most dynamos (alternators) encompas multiple metals (orin, aluminum, copper), I think this would be a true nightmare. Better to keep them all out of the water in the first place.

    Sorry for the digression, but you are well aware of my love of informing people of things they had not considered. :D
     
  15. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    I was a commercial pilot in the NW, mainly Oregon and Washington. People think of it as a coastal region, but the area can be described as a temperate rain forest. They do have relatively clear skies with long days in the Summer, and in terms of fixed solar panels, it is feasible to harvest solar energy in the NW. As far as going mobile though, best to rely on batteries. Any portable electronics I carried in a flight "bug out" bag, from a radio, flashlight or GPS, had multiple battery back-ups, including a satellite phone I carried. They aren't cheap however for the average consumer to consider, as they cost around $1,200 - 1,500 and you're charged as much as $6 a minute. It's for emergencies, not casual talk.

    I think most of the towed water generators you can drag behind a boat are made of marine stainless steel and aluminum.

    Generating electricity on a boat by wind and/or solar power would probably be the better choice, I agree with that.
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, as long as there is enough light to see, a solar panel will work.

    To give an idea, way back in 1977 when the solar panel industry was literally in it's infancy, I was in the Science club in school. And we had a night planned with star gazing as a goal. And the teacher asked us before we went if moonlight was the same as sunlight.

    Well, confused answers, as you would expect from Junior High kids. But during a break he pulled out a little 3"x5" solar panel hooked up to a small fan, and aimed the panel at the moon. Sur eenough, the fan turned. Not as fast as in the sun, but it did indeed turn at a reasonable RPM.

    Clouds can affect output by 20-40%, but it certainly does not make the panels worthless. In the case of a small unit for batteries, increase charge times from 8 hours to say 11 hours. And in a bigger unit for powering lights, TV and VCR in an RV, eliminating the use of your VCR until the clouds go away.

    And for those thinking of a "sat phone" for WWIII, think again. One of the first targets in such a war will likely be the birds such phones rely upon. But for other uses, if your pocket can afford it go ahead. Of course, I am also one of the last to actually carry a cell phone on a regular basis. I did not get my own permanent phone until late 2007. As much as I love my gadgets, in many ways I have never been an early adaptor.
     
  17. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    moonlight power, interesting, suppose it's reflected sunlight after all, I wouldn't have thought it would be enough to power anything

     
  18. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    It isn't.

    Mushroom is a highly intelligent and knowledgeable person on an array of topics, but I'll have to disagree with him on this.

    There are highly efficient solar panels capable of converting moonlight to usable energy but that is not the norm and I'll explain why.

    Solar panels require direct energy from the Sun in the form of photons. These photons strike the solar panel causing an electron to break off from one panel and attach themselves to another panel. The free electrons created by the Sun's photon energy is what generates usable power.

    Moonlight is reflected light, the Moon does not generate it's own light energy. It's why most solar panels require direct sunlight to generate electricity on a commercial scale. These backpack solar panels you can use to charge, say a cell phone lithium-ion battery only work effectively in DIRECT sunlight.

    There may be photovoltaic technology on the horizon capable of converting even starlight to electricity, but it isn't a property of your standard solar cell just yet.
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    technology is improving all the time. i would look into gear designed for that.
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    It really is not, it is something like 6% of the power of sunlight at most (bright full moon), 0% at New Moon. But remember that most solar panels actually are used to charge batteries and not power devices directly, 6% is more than 0%.

    More that I was misunderstood, I did not intend to imply that you chould really use a solar charger at night, simply that any light source does produce electricity.
     
  21. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Went to the gadget and technology show in Melbourne on the weekend, whilst everything was pretty much virtual reality & drones, they had some really nice solar portable chargers for mobile phones.
     

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