Evidence for the Holocaust?

You don't say?

Incorrect. They were put in concertration camps to work, extermination camps to die. According to a Holocaust remembrance group, which I noted earlier, three million Jews died in extermination camps during WW2. But hey, those Jewish Holocaust remembrance are probably just Holocaust Deniers in your book, right?

 

Yes, but that doesn't make it murder. Would you suggest that anyone who dies in US prisons, whether stabbed or dying from old age, is "murdered" by the United States government? Because that's the logic your holding here.

suggesting that your opponent is x, rather than discussing the substance of the dispute, is a personal attack regardless of direct or indirect but, more importantly, it's avoiding the issue and is a clear indication of the lack of substance in the argument of the one discussing their opponent.

^ you haven't read a thing here, have you?

 

if that someone was not convicted of any crime and put in prison simply due to his ethnicity or religion and is killed by a guard, yes it is an act of murder by the state.

 

why were they sent to the camps? what crime had they committed that they deserved to be held behind barbed wire, landmines, forced to wear prisoner uniforms, were savagely beaten by guards, often killed by guards, and forced to do slave labor?

what crime did they commit? what jury sentenced them? how long was their sentence?

 

^YAY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T READ POSTS THEY RESPOND TO!

You know, it's too bad that you didn't read the link I provided. You would have already known that the there were three kinds of camps: extermination, concentration, and "mixed" (mixed officially referred to as concentration camps), but the source I provided separates them into two types, putting the "mixed" into extermination, as they aren't so naive as to use official classifications, but rather classify them according to their functional purpose.

And you'd also know that pointing out that people starved in concentration camps is terribly dumb, since I've stated it 5+ times already. Oh no, you've proven me so wrong by saying exactly what I said with pictures!

Also, just out of curiosity - is English your native language?

 

The incarceration of the Jews was illegal, as they were convicted of no crimes by a trial and a judge.

The Nazis intentionally starved the Jews to death, while civilians in surrounding areas were well fed.

Its either pure ignorance or Nazi Apologism to see this any other way.

Now, as to not believing that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews by gunfire and gas? That's Holocaust-Denial.

 

That's so compassionate of the Germans to put Jews into "concentration" or "mixed" camps. </sarcasm> Any of that activity constitutes murder since the activities were highly likely to end in death and in fact so did.

Yet when it's deliberate it's murder. These people were gainfully employed and earning an living prior to the "Nuremberg Laws."

Yes.

 

At a bare minimum 4.2 million Jews are listed by name and back stories on the Yad Vashem searchable database. Furthermore; the Wold Almanac figures are comparisons between GLOBAL not European Jewish populations pre and post war. I myself have never heard the 8 million figure, the earliest non-Soviet estimates that I have come across always show between 5 and 6 million.

Attempting to find the exact figure of holocaust victims is not anti-Semitic, the problem is when people try to minimize it down to zero and assert that there was not a systematic effort on the part of the Reich to exterminate European Jewry based on nothing but their Jewish lineage.

 

They were placed on starvation rations, the intent was to exterminate 1/3 of the Jews selected for forced labor by working them to death, the typhus endemic was all but eliminated by August of 1942

In 1989, the Auschwitz Archives in Moscow were opened for the first time since the Soviets liberated the camp in January 1945. These archives contain thousands of documents which survived destruction by the camp authorities when they fled the advancing Soviet forces. Among the items discovered were the Auschwitz Death Books. These books contain the death certificates of registered prisoners only. Nonregistered prisoners who were killed upon arrival did not receive a death certificate. The death books are incomplete. They contain the certificates of 68,864 registered prisoners who died from August 1941 to December 1943.There are no books for 1944 or periods prior to August 1941.They are either missing or were destroyed. Also, there are a number of missing books for the period August 1941 to December 1943. However, each book contains between 1400 and 1500 entries. [29] By interpolating 1500 entries into each missing death book we can arrive at approximately 80,000 deaths of registered prisoners for 1942 and 1943. [30] Dr. Tadeusz Paczula, a former Auschwitz inmate, was in the camp from 1940. He also kept the death registries for registered inmates. He later testified that for the two years following the summer of 1942, about 130,000 names were entered into the death registries. [31]

Nevertheless, the nearly 69,000 death certificates available afford researchers the opportunity to see exactly what was killing registered prisoners. It is now known on the basis of these certificates that very few prisoners died from typhus. [32] They show that only 2060 of the 68,864 deaths were from typhus. While typhus can be lethal, it need not necessarily be so. Lucie Adelsberger, a Jewish prisoner and camp doctor, got typhus, was quarantined, and resumed her duties after recovery. [33] Similarly, Ella Lingens Reiner, a German doctor, who was also a prisoner, contracted typhus and survived. [34] One of the early Auschwitz memoirs, written in 1947, recounts an episode with camp doctor Josef Mengele, later to become known as the "Angel of Death" for his medical experiments. Mengele was disturbed about the typhus epidemic. The former prisoner wrote: "Alas, typhus epidemics did rage in the camp, but at this time we had comparatively few victims. The same day he [Mengele] sent us a large quantity of serum and directed mass vaccinations." [35] Petro Mirchuk, a Ukranian prisoner, wrote that a delousing in August 1942, the worst month of the epidemic, "eliminated the epidemic and the billions of fleas and lice ceased to exist." [36]

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

Furthermore; death certificates were issued for natural deaths, the overwhelming majority of Jewish victims of the holocaust were never issued such certificates because they were selected for gassing upon immediate entrance to the camps, in fact they were never registered at the camps whatsoever, however, we have found in the Nazi documents records of their deportation from other camps.

 

It is Holocaust-denial to deny the Nazis' intention to commit mass murder upon the Jews of Europe.

It is Holocaust-denial to deny that the Nazis killed millions of Jews during WW2. At least 5.1 million.

 

I know all about the Holocaust, dont worry about me.

About your question- English is not my native language.

 

1. Deportation report
2. ????
3. Millions were gassed!

 

OK, so what? If the holocaust is exaggerated it's correct to deny it.

 

Since you insist on strawmen and puerile discussion, I'll let you know you're not worth my time and I won't respond to any of you further posts in this thread.

I concur. The problem is that, unfortunately, some people are so defensive about an imprecise figure. People in this thread have been so zealous as to assert that every single Jew in Europe that died between 1939 and 1945 were murdered. As if not a single person dies of natural causes. My even mentioning that the real figure for victims is more likely 5.1million (which it sounds like is about right in your view) has been bemoaned as if anything less than 6.0million is Holocaust denial.

I've already had a somewhat lengthy discourse in this thread. I don't actually expect you to have read every post of mine, but suffice it to say I've covered this already and noted much the same facts. In fact, the figure I drew on might have been higher, as I drew on a figure stating that 3million were killed in extermination camps (or concentration camps that were effectively extermination camps), which is easily the majority of any reasonable estimate of the total population killed during the Holocaust.

^ neither of which anyone has said here. Again, your insisting on strawmen. It's pathetic and childish. So long as you continue to insist on straw men, I'm not going to waste any more of my time here with you.

The problem is that you don't know what you're responding to. Your arguments have not really matched with what I've said. You've basically put forth straw men. Pay closer attention to what you're responding to, for the reasons already mentioned.

Just curious, not trying to criticize or anything. Glad to have you on the forum.

 

when people are illegally detained simply due to their ethnicity/religion, and then die simply due to malnutrition when locals right outside the wire are getting very adequate caloric intake and the prison guards are eating well, the victims of malnutrion were murdered. Especially when the regime that ran the camp had a clear desire to rid the continent of millions of these people.

How can you be so bind?

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exaggeration implies intent.

there is no evidence that the statisticians and historians who believe in Holocaust numbers closer to 6 million have done so out of intent to commit fraud.

 

How is 5.1 million calculated?

 

People on this forum can easly ignore things that me or you or anybody else give them to look on.

Its all good, I know I dont have parfect English, but yet I have not seen anybody who spoke a foreign language without mistakes

 

Ask Hilberg.

Wolfgang Benz came up with 5.39 million.

 

This thread is not to define murder but the extent of the holocaust. Please stay on topic.

Intent of holocaust fraudsters (such as 'soap', 'lampshades', etc.) is irrelevant to the factual question of the extent of the holocaust. Please stay on topic.

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Please detail their arguments.

 

Go read them like an adult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Benz#Holocaust_casualty_numbers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg#Critical_reception

 

The vast majority of minimizers are in fact holocaust deniers who realized their previous positions were untenable, the only way to tell is to ask the question, do you believe that there was a systematic effort on behalf of Nazi Germany to exterminate Jews? If they answer no to that indisputable fact then they are in the same camp as the rest of holocaust denying conspiracy theorists.

You, also, have to take into account the appx. 2 million Jews killed by the Einsatgrupen rear actions by shooting and hanging as documented in their Special Operation Reports prior to the construction of the purpose built extermination camps.

 

It is either pure ignorance or pure dishonesty driven by hate, to deny the millions of Jews killed by the Nazis by gassing, shooting, and starvation.

 

Please desist from this irrelevant ranting, which has been reported.

 

2 million were not killed by the Einsatzgruppen. This is not even possible.

Himmler's second speech is a fake.

 

already covered this, not my fault you didn't read it, or if you insist on straw men

It's drawn from Raul Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews, here

But when you respond to my posts and are missing critical information, then your post basically becomes pointless.

The reason why I asked is because, from what you wrote, it looked like you either were obscenely upset, or you just don't speak English as a first language.

basically a non-response to what I said, but yeah. The problem remains that you've got people - in this very thread - that are so adamant that they insist that every single Jew that died during WW2 was murdered, to include those who died of old age or other such natural causes. ^_-

Yeah I'm not familiar with that, I assume those were the people acting semi-independently? But that figure, just on face value, is hard to believe. That, taken with the 3million figure from extermination camps, plus those who died of disease, starvation, etc., and you'd get well over the figure that is simply the population change. So either that's wrong, or something I had is wrong, or the Jews had a ridiculously high birth rate during the war.

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