Explain your motive for participating in a religious forum

Doesn't every person involved in politics try to push their beliefs on children and everyone else for that matter? Why does it matter that my beliefs are based on a religion? You're free to participate in the democratic process too. I don't feel you should be excluded from it because you don't believe in God, not a Christian or whatever. I only care that I have more votes than you.

 

Uh, no Bruce, it's not. They are not as moral as modern Secular Humanism teaches. No 2000 year old belief system could be.

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Why can't you just answer the question!?
I blame Jesus.

 

If you want to use "none" as your argument, expect it.
Do you think Westboro would support those types of laws? Some of the churches in Nigeria?

 

you can believe what ever you want, you just can't use a position of power (like a teacher) to push your religious beliefs on other peoples children

.

 

I understand. I don't want certain types teaching my kids their beliefs either.

 

Certain types, eh? Homos? Jews?

 

They certainly do want gays KILLED: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Nigeria

A very moral prayer for our Christian friends to say would be: "Jesus, please reveal yourself to the Christians of Nigeria and tell them that gays should be treated equally. Amen."
1. Can I get any Christians reading this to support that action?
2. Would changing the Bible be a more effective, and permanent way to accomplish that same loving goal?
3. Your thoughts?

 

I personally organized one of the earliest veterans' protests against Westboro. I don't care what they would or would not support. They are wrong. They are sinners. Judgement awaits them. They're obviously very harmful to our ability to spread the Gospel.

 

Many Christians are home-schooling their children, in an attempt to shield them from the real-world, but that's not a good long term strategy.

 

The argument that changing the book is the answer is an ignorant one.
Very much so.
You don't understand how many denominations use it as a view of how people's understanding of God has evolved and continues to do so.
The book isn't the issue, except to the literalists. Preach to them, specifically. Stop using such a broad brush and alienating almost everyone you talk to, both believers and non-believers.

 

Virtually anyone whose beliefs are contrary to sound doctrine. What about you? Whose beliefs would you rather not be pushed on your kids?

 

I applaud that effort. Good work!
What would be even better is to start a movement that has a bible that simply doesn't contain the most vile parts, you'd do wonders with that (a more moral version - nothing wrong with that.) Give it a try!

But instead of Jesus punishing them, wouldn't it be best if Jesus just came down right now and EDUCATED them that they are wrong about gays, such as by showing them personally a gay person that they could identify with so they realize gays are just normal people? You have to agree it's a pretty good idea, no?

Believe in education over punishment. Jesus refuses to do that, but YOU can.

 

No offense, but you are more advocating a, well, band-aid, while I advocate core underlying changes that have longer and more permanent benefits. Something to think about.

 

But they are using the same scripture you are to justify their beliefs.

 

Keep the old un-changed version on hand, of course, but also have a newer, sleeker, more moral/updated version that 95% of the teaching comes from. No NEED, 95% of the time, to have verses that say to kill gays, right? A working version, I argue.

 

Ok, i had my lunch.. sorry to see you so tangled up, but i'll do my best to put things in perspective.

I'll go with:
C: 'The bible is a book of historical events & values from ancient generations.'

Why? I'm a student of history, not a judge of it. Sh*t happens all throughout history, & i find making judgements about those events, viewed through the politically correct filters of emotional hysteria, absurd. Not that long ago, they bled people to let out 'bad blood'. Some people thought the sun revolved around the earth. People believe all kinds of strange things, with little evidence.. like global warming. besides, ascribing evil to an inanimate object is just a little creepy.. You probably believe all matter just magically appeared from nowhere, assembled itself, & spontaneously generated life, too, right?

No, you can keep your outrage over some manuscripts written 5000 years ago for those who love drama. Few people live by all the pronouncements in the OT, so where's the beef? I don't care who you bugger, as long as they consent. ..oh, and do enjoy your religion.. it is comforting for some to have it organized, so they don't have to think for themselves...

 

Yes, like moderate Muslims give their children exactly the same verses that Osama gave his children. They can do it, they can muster the courage to make improvements in the texts to help out their children. I know they care that much about their children.

 

And what do you consider sound doctrine?

To answer your question to me, I only want two things "pushed" onto kids: facts, and equal treatment based on the Golden Rule.

 

Arguably those scriptures are the problem. Modern Secular Humanism won't have that problem, because the writings of MSH don't contain the vile verses. YouLie, I know you care enough about future generations to improve those texts, and I know you're smart enough to accomplish that. I believe in you.

 

It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with you. I hope you realize that, instead of believing some fantasy that you're so smart people run from you. You don't have to win. You just have to make sense and be respectful.

How am I supposed to answer a question like, "Wouldn't be great if Jesus just came down and did this or that?"

I have a Bible. I don't base my religious beliefs on anything other than this Bible. I am glad to discuss what is in this Bible. I cannot entertain hypotheticals nor try to outsmart or be more moral than God. Let's just stick to the text. I can answer seven references to homosexual acts in the Bible. This is an easy one.

 

bruce, as a former Christian preacher, and a smart guy, I bet you could craft a new version that leaves out the 2 verses that say to kill gays, to make YouLie's job easier.

 

Sound doctrine has nothing to do with constitutional principles which is all that dictate what can and can't be taught regarding beliefs. If you want sound doctrine to be at the forefront of school teaching, send them to private school.

 

I had to think outside of the box, see the big picture, to grow as a youngster, as I left Christianity, for a more moral belief system.

When you realize that yes, it WOULD INDEED be great if the all-powerful Jesus came down and did such and such (he's all-powerful, so he of course can do that), then you'll get it, you'll get that you are smarter and more moral than even Jesus. I believe in you.

 

Those changes have been made long ago in the way the bible is taught in many denominations. That's the part you seem to be ignorant of.

 

It's easy, just for a moment pretend that there's no after-life punishment for thinking outside of the Bible, and let you mind be free. Then later, come back to the Bible if you want, but this exercise will give you a new perspective on things.