Fertility clinics -- OK with god?

It seems to me that god doesn't want everyone to reproduce otherwise there would be no such thing as infertility. So do you think that people who go to fertility clinics and become preganant through artifce are going against god's will? Are they sinning? Have they been influenced in some way by Satan?

Is it OK to beome pregnant in a way other than the old fashioned way? Or is it a ticket to the hot place? We all know what is paved with good intentions.

 

There is a thing called personal responsibility.......the things we consume does and can have an effect on our ability to have children.

 

Assuming you are correct--and certainly that can be a contributing factor, but plenty of healthy couples can not conceive--how does this address my question?

 

And what is your definition of a healthy couple? Realize this; a person can look healthy and not be. Genetically engineered food is known and can cause people to become sterile.

 

I assume you are talking about the christian God. Most christians believe that the first command God gave man was to go forth and multiply. On that simple standard fertility clinics are in line with Gods will. I would guess that some of the practices of the clinics are less so. The laboratory fertilization of multiple embryos and the subsequent destruction of them, (or experimental use of them), once the mother conceives is murder in the eyes of many christians.

What makes it is funny is the recent hubbub about religious freedom in reference to contraceptives and the fact that so many conservative christians despise women who bear children they cannot afford. You don't have to strain to see hypocrisy in this.

 

Dunno, why don't you ask him?

 

Well, why would it be? People all the way back in time sought aids for fertility, that they have become more effective than a totem or prayer alone? Why would they now be bad?

 

Almost every in vitro treatment results in one or more fertilized embryos failing to attach. And even if all of them successfully attach, doctors recommend culling down to one. Basically, almost every in vitro treatment results in one or more dead embryos. If god is not okay with abortion, wouldn't he also have a problem with in vitro?

 

Fertility rites and other methods have been part of human society for thousands of years. One notable one is honeymead (from which the word honeymoon stems), where honeymead was given to newly weds on their wedding night to ensure the man is able to "perform" and to make the woman more fertile. Not very scientific by today's standards but in those times it was accepted.

Even today in Laos, women go on a specific diet to assist in fertility. Probably not very scientific but who's to argue? At Theravada Buddhist wedding ceremonies, monks chant a fertility rite and a Baci is performed to aid fertility. I wish I could understand Pali, because the way the woman whoop and laugh during certain parts of the ceremony, the words must be bawdy.

Today, why shouldn't childless couples engage in science to conceive?

 

You tell me, because you are asking two different questions as if they are the same thing.

You are not pushing fertility in that line of reasoning, you are looking to excuse abortions. There is a difference, but sense you just responded with a debate we already had about the exact same issue while demonstratably leaving off moral considerations .... I'm not guessing you have much interest in fertility debate vs. a simple axe to grind.

Context matters, including intent. And no one should forgo parenthood because some shilk says that they should support, or do, support abortion based on a slipperly slope of moral relativism.

 

Exactly, parenting is a blessing. And, if God really doesn't want you to concieve, all the fertily treatments in the world will not help. Adoption might.

 

OK, you're not going to answer my question. Got it.

 

Didn't know god was a forum member.

 

There are quite a few people in these forums who believe they have the ear of god. Ask one of them!

 

The Catholic Church believes that IVF is a sin, so any couple who cannot fall pregnant the normal way should not be allowed to realise their dreams of becoming parents.

I wouldn't say infertility is Gods way of deciding who is a fit parent, that is assuming God exists, and we seem to assume an awful lot about a God that none of us have seen.

 

That's it exactly.

 

I already answered your question in post #2……..don’t blame God for man’s responsibilities.

 

At no point have I ever taken a stance on abortion, at least not here. So try to ignore whatever baggage you're bringing into this thread and see if you can answer the one question that I asked: if god is not okay with abortion, wouldn't he also have a problem with in vitro?

I'm not trying to "push" anything here, by the way. I'm wondering if the usual pro-life posters are consistent in their positions or not. Felicity appears to be.

 

I think prevention is worth a pound of cure; and persons of alleged religious morals have no real basis to care since they have not clamored for anti-hypocrisy laws to go along with their morals.

 

When you throw the exact same arguement you through at me the last time you engaged the issue? Funny, when called its the other guy bringing in baggage.

You got a rebuttal, you respond with emotion. Typical. Go ahead and address the points that were made, and remember, in a debate forum, no one just has to accept your petulance. You should expect rebuttal, and at no point then, as now, have you addressed context or intent. You know, those squirrely non-scientific issues called ethics.

Clearly - that just baggage though?

BTW - what is my stance on 'pro-life'? As you very clearly are now debating with the intent to call other hypocrites on abortion, for which you yourself are apparently not actually taking a position ... well, interesting that its hypocrisy rather than an actual discussion of the issue you seek.

Atheism. Its not about ethics, its about making other people feel dumb so you can feel smart. Its why atheists fear and loath smart religious people.

 

If a divine power were opposed to a couple attaining the happiness found in a child, then the sciences associated with fertility would be unknown or non-existent.

 

That's not sound logically.

 

I assume you are going to refer to free will?

 

Do you expect Wolf to actually make an arguement? Or just find unsound reasons to thump his chest and remind you how much smarter he is then you?

He's wrong of course, you are both kinder and smarter than he .... but, reality is what it is, and not everyone wishes to acknowledge it.

 

If you don't want to answer the question, then just say so. Don't try to deflect by bringing in unrelated issues (atheism) and emotional baggage from previous threads.