Finally a crack in the wall and we see the light

Another blond haired blue eyed "ashkeNAZI" for the ever so silly anti-semitic blog ziomania to add to their collection.



And I love how that site refers to Amir Peretz in the self contradictory fasion as a Moroccan 'arab jew' lmao. Only shows their ignorance, if anything by their logic if he was native to morocco (a word of berber origin), he would be a 'Berber Jew', not an 'arab jew' if we went by the site's twisted logic that you take on the ethnicity or race of the group you live among simply by living there. lol, whats next "arab berbers"?? And its very likely amir peretz is descended from sefaradim who went to morocco after the expulsion, so he would actually be called a 'spanish jew' if we went by the site's logic, which would make him 'european' as well.

 

Even in this video titled "do ashkenazim hate mizrahim?" (at least I think thats the title) nearly all of the israeli ashkenazim who are asked the question have olive or brown skin! On one occasion a yemenite jewish woman is even mistaken for being ashkenazi in the video! And a sefaradic jew is also thought to be ashkenazi, and guess what, he has light eyes and is even lighter than the first few ashkenazim, the one with the pony tail named Ori is straight up brown and looks yemenite! Surprise surprise, none of these average ashkenazi people hate mizrahi people and find the question absurd and offensive that non-israelis would believe this nonsense. Why? Because their ancestors went through the holocaust and were hated for their dark skin and non-european features. These grandchildren and great grandchildren of holocaust victims and survivors are even brown or olive themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE

Don't believe that stupid site ziomania, its full of lies.

 

They drove them out. The Transfer of the Arabs from what was to become Israel was a plan of the Zionist leadership, although a carefully concealed one. Read Rabbi Chaim Simons' exposé on this carefully concealed strategy: http://chaimsimons.net/transferlecture.html Seriously - read it and expose the Myths for what they are.

Secondly, regarding your Myth repetition that the Zionist immigrants did not drive out the Palestinians, let us be clear on this. There were various methods used by the Haganah and the Zionist terrorist organisations (such as Irgun). And yes, the Arabs themselves were responsible for the depopulation of certain of these 400 settlements of some 750 000 Palestinians, but that was a vast minority. If you want the details of the painstaking research into this topic using dozens of archives including those of the Haganah, the IDF, the Jabotinsky institute, the David Ben Gurion archives, etc, then at least take a glance at Benny Morris' magnum opus "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited". You can find major excerpts of it on Google Books. If you are seriously in search of the truth, I urge you to have a go. These details have NEVER been refuted. The amazing truth is that the Arabs were responsible for the depopulation of less than a dozen of the 400+ settlements. Morris provides an exposé of the Myth in his preface, pages xiv to xxx. The data are explosive.

a) The methods used included only partly forced removal. A particularly brutal example was that of the Death march from Lyddah. You can read a summary of the sickening story here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus_from_Lydda_and_Ramle. Be sure to check out the journalist Kennith Bilby's eye-witness account. In many settlements villagers tried to return after the original conflict, but were turned back by Jewish forces.

b) Deir Yassim represents the most sordid method of all - murder. But that was common elsewhere such as in Lydda,

c) Much of the flight from other villages was induced by fear-tactics used by the Zionist forces, such as threats that the plight of Deir Yassim would befall them if they did not flee. Pamphlets dropped used in this propaganda still exist; one was even sold on Ebay. Jewish organisations deny this ethnic cleansing. You can read a rebuttal here: http://www.deiryassin.org/op0005.html

BroadwayBaby, in times of conflict people rarely flee. They stay at home and batten down the hatches. If not their goats would be stolen. The British did not flee the blitz (not sure about the goats). More recently in Srebrenica, the Bosnians did not flee. They stayed indoors and kept their heads down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

The Hasbara claims that the Arab leaders made radio broadcasts to their followers to flee. But is their evidence for this?

You have references above, BroadwayBaby. Expose the Myths; they get in the way of understanding and ultimate peace.

 

Blame the mufti and his role in the holocaust against sefaradim in europe, as well as the farhud against the iraqi jews of baghdad. 'Anti-zionism' is so peaceful, isn't it? Famous anti-zionists: David Duke, Ahmadinejad, the mufti, his relatie Arafat, Hitler, Assad, Saddam Hussein, Khomeini, Khamenei. Great cause.

 

[video=youtube;cn4r7ZjG9Nc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&index=90&list=PLA207FBB17A5BE565[/video]

 

Since you provide zero commentary, BroadwayBaby, I presume that the entire video content has your full approval and is meant to refute my identification as a Myth that the Jewish forces were responsible for the bulk of the Nakba. If I am incorrect, please follow forum rules and provide personal commentary as opposed to a brainless cut-and-paste of a URL.

But on to the actual video content. I hope this one goes way better than your last attempted use of the liar Grieff in support of one of the Zionist mega-Myths.

At 01:28 we have the first piece of “evidence”, the rest up until then was a big zero.

Excuse me for being utterly underwhelmed, BB. What kind of evidence is that compared to the impeccable references from Benny Morris’ archival research that I provided you with. Did you bother to read any of it?

Specifically, how were the hundreds of thousands of rural peasants “told” this by the Arab high command, BB. The only feasible way in 1948 was by radio. What evidence of that do we have? It seems there was evidence that this was exactly the way that the Arab instructions were broadcast:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/refugees.html

It then goes on to list the exact same newspapers apparently represented in the video. So there we have it. The Arab leaders used radio broadcasts to exhort their follows to flee. The video is vindicated.

There is only one problem. It is all a pack of lies. These stories were fabricated by Shmuel Katz in 1953, and repeated by people like Jon Kimche a self-proclaimed expert on the Nakba times.

Kimche’s claims and the reason why this is a crock of crud can be found here:
http://www.palestine-studies.org/en...hilders, Walid Khalidi, Jon Kimche, et al.pdf
It is a wonderful compilation starting with bombastic claims by Kimche launching ad hominem attacks on Walid Khalidi. But in the end Khalidi and Erskine Childers triumphed when they showed that studies of BBC and CIA monitoring of radio broadcasts in Palestine in 1948 failed to reveal any exhortations by the Arab leadership that their followers should vacate their villages. Nothing. Nada. Zip. But on the contrary they recorded many broadcasts by that very leadership exhorting their subjects to stay at home!!! OUCHIES!!!

It was a devastation rebuttal of a favoured Zionist Myth made over 50 years ago. But the Myth lingers on. The Zionist web sites continue to perpetrate the Myth of the Arab instructions to flee. And people like you pass them on.

http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/ErskinChilders.html At the end of a summary of his studies Erskine Childers exhorts us as follows:

That is why I checked your video. I found it to be severely wanting. That Mega-Myth was busted 50 years ago!! yet you contribute to passing the turd on.

Isaiah 44 Verse 18

 

How klipkap can twist truth into lies and lies into truth. Typical antisemitic mentality. Nothing new and nothing to concern ourselves about. The truth prevails and unfortunately yours 'facts and sources' are dubious. Shame really as you do seem intelligent.

 

Interesting video about the false reports of rape and pillage at deir yassin, even from the arabs own mouths. The farhud on the other hand did happen to Iraqi Jews in baghdad, and after we left baghdad and fled to eretz yisrael {even before it was established in 48}, the arab armies followed us there and tried to later slaughter us again in the 1948 war, they said "sawfa nawmir al-yahud fi-l-ba7r al-abyaD al-mutawassiT" (we will drive the jews into the mediteranean sea). They failed then, and again failed in 67. The syrians shelled israeli villages from the Golan, Israel captured the golan and destroyed their guns (thanks to Eli Cohen who was hung for being a jewish spy in Syria), Jordan lost the west bank and east jerusalem to Israel. And Egypt lost gaza which they had occupied for decades. Now after their wars, they demand Israel return these.

Black september is something that is also forgotten. The PLO and palestinians tried to take over the Jordanian monarchy and government, Jordan expelled them, they fled to lebanon and set up a terrorist base there. Israel invaded lebanon in response to the PLO attacks on northern Israel. The mistake Israel made was with the occupation of southern Lebanon, a hard lesson learned. However after withdrawing all troops from southern lebanon, the terrorist islamic group, founded by the Islamic Republic of Iran, Hizbullah decided to cross the border and kidnap israeli soldiers. Israel withdraws from Gaza, Gaza fires rockets at Israel. You can't deal with people like this.

Another interesting fact too that people forget, when Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem, Jews were not allowed to pray at the western wall. So much for living in harmony under arab rule.

Jordan had obligated itself within the framework of the 3 April 1949 Armistice Agreements to allow "free access to the holy sites and cultural institutions and use of the cemeteries on the Mount of Olives." Christian pilgrims were allowed to visit the Temple Mount, but Jews of all countries and non-Jewish Israelis were barred from entering Jordan and therefore could not travel to the area.[30] Tourists entering East Jerusalem had to present baptismal certificates or other proof they were not Jewish.[31][32]

The special committee that was to make arrangements for visits to holy places was never formed and Israelis, irrespective of religion, were barred from entering the Old City and other holy sites.[33] The Jewish Quarter and its ancient synagogues were systematically destroyed, and gravestones from the Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives were used to build latrines for Jordanian army barracks.[34][35]

Six-Day War[edit]
Despite Israeli pleas that Jordan remain neutral in the Six-Day War, on the war's first day Jordanian forces attacked Israeli-held West Jerusalem. By the third day of the war, Israel Defense Forces had completely pushed the Jordanian and Iraqi armies out of the West Bank. The formerly Jordanian-controlled West Bank with its one million Palestinian population came under Israeli military occupation. About 300,000 Palestinian refugees fled to Jordan. After 1967, all religious groups were granted administration over their holy sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank#Access_to_holy_sites

 

And when they are faced with the truth, the Myth purveyors are forced to leave the realm of fact and record.
Instead they tread the road of personal attacks and name calling and provide *clang* empty responses. Typical. Absolutely typical of the Hasbara brigade.

By the way BB, regarding the name-calling, see my signature.

Shame really. They should by now know better. They have been presented with the FACTS often enough

 

Were the deaths therefore also false, Ovadia. Was Benny Morris also false when he confirmed the rapes at the time? How did the nameless Arabs in the video explain the 107 bodies? How did they explain the 25 bodies in the quarry. How did they explain the dead women and children?

Shame on you. Such denials are ethically just as bad as holocaust denial. The Hasbara merchants have stepped too low this time.

In March 1998 the Zionist Organisation of America published "Deir Yassin: History of a Lie". http://www.deiryassin.org/denierspr-980309-99.html I don't deny contrary views. I read it. All of it.

Unfortunately, when you deny well-recorded history you lay yourself open to factual rebuttal. This was the case with the ZOA. They provided no interviews with faceless Arabs, so they could be tested. The testing happened here: http://www.deiryassin.org/op0005.html

Be a Mensch. Read the source quoted above and be disgusted at what Menachem Begin's organisation was willing to do ... members of a people who had been subjected to the same type of horrors not 5 years earlier. I find it truly sickening and disgustingly hypocritical.

But enough about massacre denial. Benny Morris' studies showed that there were far more rapes of Arab women than previously acknowledged. Nice!!

When you deny such atrocities, you bring attention to yourselves. You invite comparisons to those who deny other atrocities. And you exit tarnished.

I will adress your other random remarks later, Ovadia. You have my attention.

.... (to be continued) ...

 

Partial truths are an integral component of Hasbara. Let us complete the story:

FACT!! Now, did the Palestinians return to their homes after the Nakba?
Sorry, Ovadia, we can’t hear you. Please speak up.

I put it to you, Ovadia, that this is yet another Hasbara partial-truth. On this forum overwhelming evidence has been provided that the Israelis were responsible for the vast majority of provocations along the Syrian border …. “let us say over 80%” [General Moshe Dayan].
Response?

A distortion of history, Ovadia. Having drawn attention to yourself, you no longer escape scrutiny. What you wrote there is not true; at best a question of ignorance. There was a cease-fire at the time of the Israeli invasion; correct Ovadia. Were the PLO shelling Israel at the time? Who broke the ceasefire in June 1982, Ovadia?

Yet more half-truths, Ovadia. WHY did Hezbollah cross the border, Ovadia? Hassan Nazrallah explained the reason in great detail. Care to share it with us?

I cannot believe that you believe in this gross distortion of recent history, Ovadia. When Israel withdrew, elections were held the next year (2006). No cherry-picking ... the full story ... take us through the history … FACTUAL history … from then on until end 2008, Ovadia … step-by-step. If you can face it, that is.

Why not tell us what happened only six months earlier in December 1966 in Jordan, Ovadia. In particular, tell us what the US and the UK representatives had to say at the UN. No wriggling ... the UN records are public. Then tell us what happened in early April 1967. Cherry-picking will not be tolerated, Ovadia.

See my signature.

 

Sorry, I'm not open to hearing Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah explain his actions. Pot calling the kettle black, indeed all you have been doing is cherry picking and distorting the facts I will not be drawn into your flame war. Once you use the terrorist Nasrallah as someone to 'explain' to us the 'real' situation in Lebanon, you have exposed yourself and your agenda.

 

Since facts, logic and actual debate/explanations mean nothing to you, we have little in common.

I presume that you also dont heed the terrorist Menachem Begin.

Have a nice day.

 

You demand that we hear Nasrallah's side of the story, the man who with the help of Khamenei and Assad has destroyed lebanon. Menahem Begin was a terrorist at one time for blowing up the king david hotel, although the british were warned to evacuate. It was terrorism but not for the purpose of killing civilians. The british laughed at jewish threats, the same british that sent thousands of jews back to the death camps and denied them entry to the british mandate of palestine, which included Jordan. That can't be compared to the actions of Hezbollah, Hamas, or Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. Begin later expressed regret for his actions. I don't support the early terrorism carried out by some militant zionist groups. You however demand we hear Nasrallahs side of the story, so that not only makes you a hypocrite, but you actively support a man who has terrorized not only the Israelis but the lebanese people. Do you have any idea how many lebanese hate this radical islamic terrorist? And as I said before, Israel withdrew from Gaza, and they fired rockets in response and have been even killing each other. You can't deal with these islamic jihadists. Hamas' sole purpose is to destroy the jewish people its in their charter. Have fun with your cause which is supported by the likes of Ahmadinejad, Khamenei, and Assad.

 

1) Where did I cherry-pick on Grieff's lies regarding the Mandate giving the Jews a State of their own. I made direct quotes from the Mandate text. Off you go ... prove cherry picking from that text.
2) Where did I cherry pick evidence regarding the Zionist claim that the Arabs did not tell there followers to flee.? I showed results of proper research and not namely faces on a video. Off you go ... prove cherry picking.
3) Where did I cherry pick that Israel was responsible for 80% of the provocations along the Syrian border in 1965-1967. I can bury you in evidence but your only response it to "say so". On this forum I have shown support from Dyans's words, from the IDF data, from Knesset records and from the UN armistice commission reports. Off you go and prove those were Cherry-picking.
4) Where did I cherry pick that it was primarily the actions of the Jewish forces that caused the depopulation of the bulk of the Arab settlements in Palestine in 1948-1950? The best fundamental research on this topic ever was that done by Morris on Israeli state archives. Where did I cherry pick from his conclusions? Off you go ... prove your accusation.

 

You really need to get to grips with the principle of cause-and-effect, and to keep on honest timeline in your faith-based support for the Myths, Ovadia.

Israel slaughtered tens of thousands of Lebanese in 1982. Khamenei only entered the picture in 2008. Iran’s Khameinei then supported Hezbollah. In 2006 a poll published by World Public Opinion.org showed that Hezbollah was backed by 87% of Lebanese viz-a-viz Israel’s aggression. Nasrallah was the leader of Hezbollah.

Yet your response is “Khamenei destroyed Lebanon”. Ovadia …. Words fail me.

Let me cut to the chase. Hezbollah kidnapped the Israeli soldiers for one reason and one reason only. Nazrallah told us that it was because Israel had reneged on an agreement regarding ‘prisoner’ swaps while Hezbollah had complied. I know that some of the Lebanese prisoners had committed heinous deeds, but Israel also know that when they agreed. Hezbollah's 2006 actions led to the proper completion of the swap.

So now tell me, in that scenario, who crapped on the doormat of peace which led to the 2006 conflict, Ovadia?
Israel or Khamenei?
Israel or Nazrallah?

There was no cherry-picking there, Ovadia. Just my willingness to consider all the facts, and to follow logic and reason.

Before you are tempted to play the anti-Semitic card, please read my signature.

 

Good, so an Israeli Prime Minister was a terrorist. So was Shamir. Next time we see the T-term bandied around, we will be able to consider that it applies to both sides.

Please tell me that you are joking when you use that excuse. That must be the cherry-pick of the week.

*blink* Are you feeling OK?
Have you not taken your Myth support too far?

Oy Vey. Since 1923 Jordan was excluded from the Mandate to which Jewish immigration was allowed – fully approved by the League of nations. Ovadia, I sincerely suggest you start paying attention to real facts. These Myths lead to schoolboy howlers.

 

Khamenei didn't enter the picture until 2008? lmao, Hi7bullah is an iranian implant. It was founded by shia lebanese with the help of the Islamic Republic of Iran. And yes, there is no comparison between the bombing of the king david hotel and the targeting of innocent civilians. The zionist terrorists WARNED the british to evacuate, they said 'stupid jews' and didn't listen. I'm not condoning the terrorist attack at all, but its not even close to what Hamas or Hi7bullah does, they actually target humans, not buildings. Nasrallah has destroyed lebanon and Hamas has destroyed Gaza. Everyone in their right mind knows this. As I said before Israel withdrew from Gaza and they decide to start killing each other in gaza, not to mention firing rockets at Israeli civilians and hiding amongst their own civilians so when Israel retaliates, innocent gazans die. This whole conflict is a pathetic joke. Nasrallah and his terrorist buddies like Khamenei and Ahmadinejad in the past have brought nothing but blood to the region.

 

I would say that it is far more truthful to state that Hezbollah owes its foundation to Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Analysts make no mention of this emergence being as a result of an Iranian implant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hezbollah#Hezbollah.27s_emergence What is your source?
The 2008 was clearly a typo. It should have been 1988, which is well after Hezbollah was founded (1985 at the latest). Of course prior to that there was a philosophical/religious influence since Iran is the bastion of the Shiá faith. By “Khomenei “entering the picture” I refer to his ACTIVE involvement, not a philosophical influence. I agree that Iran was in Syria earlier, but we are specifically discussing Lebanon. Active involvement by Iran started in 1988 leading to the extraordinary October 1989 conference in Tehran in which Hezbollah’s future was debated and Iran support formulated.

Both sides target innocent civilians, Ovadia. Your piousness is astonishing. How else do you explain these statistics from Operation Cast Lead: 1400+ ,Gazans killed versus 12 israelis. Get real!!! How do you explain the +/- 20 000 slaughtered by Israel in Lebanon. Your denial is offensive just like other denials of genocide.

I challenge you to follow a detailed timeline of cause-and-effect in Gaza from the 2006 election through to December 2008, and show me who was the aggressor. I challenge you to analyse why the June 1981 ceasefire was broken with Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in June 1982.

Ovadia, you are relatively new here. The vets are fully aware of the UN observer forces reports that the PLO had not been firing on northern Israel. They are also acutely aware of Israeli media analysis that the PLO had been strictly observing the ceasefire for almost a year. It is all out there, fully documented on this forum. If you need references, please give a shout. I cannot afford to waste more time in repetition, so I refer you to this thread and to the ongoing discussions of the topic of the Lebanese invasion, in particular to the debunking of the claim that it was a PLO bombardment that caused Begin to let Sharon loose on Lebanon.
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=313440&page=4&p=1062942664#post1062942664

 

The cherry-pick of the year.

Israel withdraws from Gaza ..... LOL .... but maintains air and sea control on Gaza, refuses to allow the Gaza airport to be repaired, insists on full control on all sea traffic in and out of Gaza .... give us a break, Ovadia. This is all common knowledge. To claim a full withdrawal makes you look like .... I dunno .... you tell me.

What a stunning piece of Hasbara. At least have the chutzpah to use the word "partially". Could you bring yourself to do that or do you sincerely believe the Israeli propaganda that it had fully withdrawn from Gaza.

Now that we have established that Israel had NOT fully withdrawn from Gaza, but only removed settlers and troops, why should Gaza not continue to fire rockets on Israel, until she let go the reigns completely? Israel would absolutely do the same in the reverse position. We saw that in 1948-1949 with microscopic clarity.

Do you operate with double standards, Ovadia?

To repeat:

 

Hasbara again ok. And I suppose Israel never withdrew from lebabon and that the plo never fired rockets into israel from southern lebanon prompting Israel to strike back and push them out of south lebanon. Hamas and Fatah have been kidnapping and killing each for years after Israel gave them gaza, I suppose thats all made up too. I have news for you. Israel isn't going anywhere. Fight Israel in the front lines if you hate Israel so much and love Hamas.

Ever hear of something known as black september? Wherever the plo goes they try to take over.

 

I will respond to two cases as my time is limited and... we did rehash all that historical twist before...
Arabs always promote the 'fait accompli' and never mention the reason behind it. Let us start with the June 1982 .

On April 1982 Yaacov Bar-Simantov second secretary of the Israel's Embassy in France, is killed by Arab Terrorists in Paris.
The Israeli Air Force attacks terrorist bases in Southern Lebanon for the first time since July 1981 after an Israeli soldier is killed by a land mine in Southern Lebanon.
May 1982 Israeli warplanes down two Syrian MIGs while on reconnaissance patrol near Beirut.
June 1982 Shlomo Argov, Israel's Ambassador to Great Britain, is seriously wounded by Arabs terrorists in London.
Israel Armed forces bomb and shell Arab Terrorist position from Southern Lebanon all the way to Beirut. The PLO retaliates with rockets and artillery shelling of 23 Israeli villages in Western and Northern Galilee and of Major Saad Haddad's enclave in Lebanon.
During that time Israel launches Operation Peace for Galilee citing right of self defense under Art. 51 of the UN charter...

Now let us jump to December 1966 and April 1967:
November 1966...After three Israeli soldiers are killed and others wounded near Mt. Hebron, Israeli troops cross the Armistice line and evacuate the village of Samoa and blow 40 houses there. They destroy truck carrying Arab Legionnaires...

On January 17, 1967 Isaraeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol reports 23 Syrian attacks since the beginning of the Year, including attacks on Farmers inside and outside the demilitarized zones, mine laying on roads and sabotaging of water installations... After Syrian forces shell Israeli villages for four days . Israeli aircraft attack Syrian artillery positions and Israeli Jet fighters down six Syrian MIG - 21
On May 13, 1967 the Soviet Union warns Egypt of an impending Israeli attack on Syria. Egyptian military visitors to Syria do not see Israeli troops concentrations and report of a low state of readiness of the Syrian Army.
on May 15 1967 Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser announces a state of military emergency, accuses Israel of threatening aggression against Syria and sends two armed Divisions into Sinai and ask Secretary U Thant to withdraw its UN Emergency forces and U Thant complies.
The rest can be picked up in any of the numerous books on the 'Six day War'...
I conclude then, that Israel NEVER initiate but ALWAYS retaliate!!!

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