My apologies if this is in the wrong forum. Didn't know where exactly to put it. "Freemen", "Free Man on the Land", and such. Big time individual sovereignty groups and such. With obvious libertarian leanings. So I'm curious. I've been looking into this, but I am hitting a brick wall. Trying to find legitimate information on it that isn't misinformation from either side (gov or FMOTL). Does anybody here know much about them? Is it actually based in fact or fiction? If so, where is legitimate source backing this up? Because I can see many reasons both legitimate and facetious for each side declaring they are right. Apparently they get a lot of flak for using things like constitutional rights, not registering their vehicles, and traffic stops in general. There is also the claim of pseudo-legal claims they make. Anybody know much about this? Because I personally feel that the government is a servant, not a master. It works for me, and shouldn't control or use force on anybody unless they are violating a contract or harming another person or another's property. And if we as a society have been duped en masse, I think we deserve to know about it.
yea, the freeman scheme is a scam http://www.examiner.com/article/the-freeman-on-the-land-myth-debunked
From the article, one commenter wrote: "I as a sovereign entity have the right to exist outside of a society and its rules" There is no sovereignty in the United States. It was explained by Justice James Wilson, Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, in 1793, "...how true it is, that States and Governments were made for man; and, at the same time, how true it is, that his creatures and servants have first deceived, next vilified, and, at last, oppressed their master and maker." "Let a State be considered as subordinate to the PEOPLE: But let every thing else be subordinate to the State." He stated that in the practice of politics there has been a strong current against the nature of things: "As the State has claimed precedence of the people; so, in the same inverted course of things, the Government has often claimed precedence of the State; and to this perversion in the second degree, many of the volumes of confusion concerning sovereignty owe their existence." Concerning the State, he noted, "It is an artificial person." He explained that the term sovereign has as its correlative subject, a term not related to the people in the Constitution of the United States. The term sovereign is not used either. He explains that sovereignty is derived from a feudal source, such as existed in Europe. It never extended, lawfully, to the American States under the Constitution. The hierarchical arrangement, then, as declared in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, is the People, the State, and then the federal government.
outside of society there are few good roads, services or utilities i imagine they could find to a place to live outside of society, but many don't when these people do come into society, they're required to follow the law and pay taxes PD: Valley man, Steve Baker, says he doesn't need driver's license because he is a 'sovereign' Steve Baker, 36, of Phoenix was arrested on October 7 after Phoenix police claim he ran a red light. Baker told the officer he did not need to show a license, registration or a proof of insurance because he was a sovereign citizen, according to court documents. Michael Crane is accused of killing Lawrence and Glenna Shapiro in their Paradise Valley home back in January. Crane insists that the criminal laws in Arizona do not apply to him because he is a sovereign being. On Tuesday, the judge presiding over Crane’s case ruled the suspect could not represent himself as he desired because he would be too disruptive. Read more and see video: www.abc15.com The Freeman on the Land myth: Debunked Freemen believe that The United States (along with several other countries) is operating under Admiralty/Maritime Law (which is used for Shipping, Banks and Corporations) as opposed to Civil Law (which is used for our countries’ citizens). The apparent proof that they claim to have of this, is the corporate status of the United States (more on that later) the gold fringe on our American Flag and the pseudo-legal definition of a person all somehow put our country under admiralty jurisdiction. Another misconception is that Common Laws are the only real laws that Freemen have to obey. They are convinced that statutes are not laws and therefore, do not need to be obeyed. The theory, in a nutshell, suggests that we are owned and operated as a bankrupt nation; by the IMF and that our income taxes are (not only unconstitutional) actually paying tribute to the Queen of England. Furthermore, they believe that our birth certificates render us as property of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. because any legal document with your name in all capital letters (i.e.: JOHN DOE) represents a loss of personal liberty and submission to another’s will. The theory claims that your name in all capital letters represents a “corporation” (aka legal person), whereas your name in lower case lettering represents a “natural person” (you). One of the arguments a freeman will tell you is that you are not a person, but you have a person, or more specifically you have a corporation. This is partially true, but we’ll explain how this is misinterpreted in the second half. Essentially, they believe that if you agree to allow your birth certificate to represent you (which contains your name in all capital letters) then you agree to forfeiting your constitutional rights and therefore have willingly accepting the status of a corporation, which (again, according to the theory) reduces your rights to that of a debt slave. http://www.examiner.com/article/the-freeman-on-the-land-myth-debunked
I saw an intense fear mongering propaganda campaign on 60 minutes attacking these people. So obviously freemen are the enemy of all Americans
they certainly seem to be enemies of our law enforcement agencies and etc [video=youtube;JT1J11OYArg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT1J11OYArg[/video]
Then we have law enforcement officers killing and attacking innocent people for no reason whatsoever. By your logic all US law enforcement agencies are enemies of the people, because of their corruption and role as propping up this criminal regime.
your illogic is delusional as usual [video=youtube;2iQ8cPesUuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iQ8cPesUuk[/video]
Since when did judges get the authority to decide who your defense is? I'd bet money that the guy is not insane, and even more that the judge is not a psychoanalyst qualified to assess his mental state. Doesn't add up. The defense always has a right to defend themself or let the court appoint an attorney for them, or arrange for their own counsel.
i don't see where anyone says he's insane? the point is that he can't just go around willy-nilly killing people then claim he doesn't have to follow the law because he's a sovereign being [video=youtube;dlVNrGJxgHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlVNrGJxgHY[/video] not if he can't behave himself there are reports that he literally squawked like a bird in court
Why would anyone want an imperialist terrorist organization, or anyone for that matter, stealing their wealth and bullying them?
You have chosen a strawman, only criminal cases have been presented here. The bulk of their issues are civil laws, not criminal. Show me the source of this nonsense. But still, the judge has no power to choose whether or not a man can defend himself in court. This judge should be fired on the spot. - - - Updated - - - Oh come on now. Stop with the insults, if you can't treat people with a shred of respect who have different opinions than you, just leave. Nobody requires your spite in the thread.
the cases presented here are real, not straw Squawks Like Bird, Refuses To Say Name In Court PHOENIX -- A man suspected of killing a man in Phoenix and a couple in the picturesque suburb of Paradise Valley refused to say his own name in court on Thursday and then squawked like a bird. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57403706-504083/suspect-in-3-ariz-murders-squawks-like-bird-at-competency-hearing/ what he wrote is delusional hyperbole, deal with it
