French energy company abandons Iran project after US about-face.....

It's Europeans who are having to decide whether their allies are Americans, representing the democracies, or Iran, representing despotism and autocracy.

Why this is such a difficult choice for Europeans is difficult to say, but they do have a history of backing the wrong horse, and ideology.

 

If that happens you may have broader support.

 

It did happen today. Trump said Germany must give up Nordstream 2 pipeline wnd buy american gas or face tariffs.

Appeasement wont work here, if we bow to USA, Trump will harass us more and more. Eavh concession will lead to harsher strikes against us. It would be a death cycle. We cant step back.

 

As long as you keep looking to agreement with your fellow democracies as "appeasement" the more difficulties you're going to run into. There's a saying in English that if you lie down with dogs you'll wake up with fleas. Looking for 'good will' from Russians or Iranians is also a 'fools errand', another English expression.

https://www.politico.eu/article/rus...-should-not-be-built-poland-konrad-szymanski/

 

Do we have a say in that or did we reach the point where a foreign country dictates us our energy politics?

Where is our part of an agreements when we get threatened to end a pipeline project that guarantees us cheap gas. US fracking gas is 30% more expensive. All we get is threats and mafia behavior.

You place much on your independence but find it acceptable to treat us like dogs?

 

You're free to do what you want and the Americans are free to do what they want, and every business deal has to take the possible consequences and risks along the way.

It seems to me that German politicians are expected to keep the German populace wealthy, at whatever cost, and are prepared to take unnecessary risks, make deals with the devil, in order to keep the people happy. Donald Trump just did the opposite. He told the American soya bean growers that they'd have difficulty selling their product because of his China policy but there would be short term pain for long term gain. That is honest leadership, even if it may not be politically advantageous. I think he'll still have their support however because he was honest with them.

Not that long ago you were insulting Americans, that you didn't need them, that Germany was much more powerful, etc. Now you're complaining of your treatment, just as any schoolyard bully is eventually shown his place. Do you really think any American is going to have any sympathy for a German, or have interest in their economic future? You want to sleep with the Iranians and Russians while you spit at the Americans?

Go ahead, but be a man and accept the consequences.

 

Pomegranates, peaches.

 

There is a difference. Russia never blocked the gas supply towards Germany, not even in worst cold war days. Russia does not try to use mafia methods, threats and insults against Germany.

What we see from USA is mafia behavior. Threats, accussations, harassment.

If we appease Trump and make concessions, it will not help in any way, because he simply will put up the next demand. Persons like Trump know no limit in exploiting others. Doing whatbthey want is seen as weakness and leads to more exploition. Our nations were allied for like 70 years now and its time to realize, that this alliance comes to an end now.

If you dont understand why we dont want be treated like an american colony, than thats your fault.

In our diplomacy deals are made with negotiations and agreement, not with threats.

We want that we buy liquified american gas? Fine, make us a better offer than the russians do. Thats how deals work.

What doesnt work is to dictate us that we end a project we already started. Threaten us with tariffs and demand that if we want avoid punishment we should buy something from you at high prices.

Same county for the Iran deal. Germany has an independend foreign politics. We signed a deal with Iran. You want sanction Iran? Fine do so. You want us to sanction them as well? Fine negotiate if we follow and offer us something. What doesnt work is to break a contract and threaten us punishment if we dont do what you want.

Your own former CIA boss Hayden said that Trump currently breaks evry alliance your country had. Should you ever need allies help they all will turn away from you. Even if you suceed with your demands now, you broke something that never can be rapaired.

 

What don’t you understand? You can drop on your knees and collectively kiss the place where a turd comes out of Pootins butthole. You are free to do what you choose.

 

The only one who wants us to drop on the knees is USA. You dont want an ally. You want a vasall.

Well Melania is in hospital now and if we are lucky Trump follows soon. He is a old man. Much can happen.

 

Nobody forces you to do anything. I work in top level of business management and guess what - situations of us vs them arise every effing day, and it’s not a big deal. All businesses are used to it. You don’t know it because you are never exposed to this level of decision making.

 

Diplomacy between nations are not run like a Business. Broken Relations, Patriotism ect Allied nations dont harass each other.

 

Of course, Trump tries to force the business in EU to follow what he demands, otherwise it will be sanctioned. This is called blackmail.

 

Apparently you have no idea what went on in Germany prior to 1989 , who your friends were, and who your enemies were. Russian propaganda, so effective during the Cold War, is still apparently very efficient and you're a great example of that.

Then there's not much can be said for Germans if that's all they see.

No one on this side of the ocean really cares. Do whatever you want with the Iranians and Russians.

And instead you'll go back to being a Russian colony. Good luck with that!

No one is threatening Germany. Again, do as you wish and the 'stupid' Americans, as you call them, will do what they wish.

Buy it from whomever you choose. Nobody cares. Just be prepared to accept the consequences. That's also how deals work.

Then make a damned decision. Why whine about it?

Are you talking of Obama's 'contract' here? There was never any such thing.

The United States certainly doesn't need 'allies' like Germany. There's a big world out there which is ready, willing and able to deal with the USA. Your future lies with Russia and Iran. I believe you chose unwisely.

 

Then go ahead and deal with Iran, and trust Russia as well.. It won't hurt your reputation at all and Putin may keep his word.

 

You didn't harass Americans? Germans weren't warned where their anti Americanism might lead? You're all hopeless.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/world/europe/germany-trump-antiamericanism.html

 

Well. We have Excellent Secret Service and great relations with Russia. Just today as we Opened the blocking Statute also News got released about trump and russia. Ivanka even was in putins office lets See what we can do to crush trump

 

Anti-Americanism? Hello?
Who does not kiss the US ass behaves anti-American?

In fact, you think in the US that the navel of the world is centered around the US and its will ... and that they all have to submit to US will? Laughter!

The fact is, Iran has NOT broken the deal. His actions in Syria in aid of his 30-year-old ally Assad, the help and support of HAMAS, the Houthi and the Shiats in Iraq, as well as his missile program have NOT been part of the deal! Conclusion: Iran can not break the deal with something that is not part of the deal - point!

The fact is that Iran can not build nuclear weapons ... against some idiotic claims from Washington and Israel that have even been refuted by all inspectors!

The fact is, Trump just never liked the deal, and he is supported by the extreme right wingers who hate Iran since the embassy and the hostage-taking of 1979 ... and of course, these right-wing idiots have important facts about 1979 as well sweep the carpet ... because you show me a country, which can be dropped, that in a strange Embassy the operations center and planning and leading a coup / counter coup is. That's exactly what happened here, thanks to the CIA who wanted to bring the Shah back to power!

And as far as the Nord Stream pipeline is concerned, that has the USA not to interest and the USA have simply to shut up and to accept! This is solely a matter between Germany and Russia, which nobody else has to care about! Where we want to get our gas is our business ... not the US, Poland, Ukraine - Basta!

But something new in this issue here ...

EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker announced that the bloc plans to kickstart a 1996 law that would prohibit European companies from complying with US sanctions on Iran.

 

In terms of business relations so far there are no grounds not to deal with Russia. Deal with Iran is also good, as it provides cheap oil. Why EU should reject good prices from Iran? Besides, to the origin of the deal with Iran. So far, no proofs from US side about the Iran was developing nuclear weapons. Inspectors from International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) so far has not found anything that would contradict to the deal.

 

Nice atlantic bridge bullshit. Your article even contradicts you and says Germany should endure the primitivism and harassment of Trump.

No. We wont endure it. Today the blocking statute was put in action. And it angers your demented president so much that he made an angry rant.

 

We live in 2018 and now you have become an enemy.

And you care alot. Trump made another tantrum against Germany and EU, because our blocking statute. He called us "very bad". He is such a primitive person.

And where is your whole world of allies? France? Joined us. UK? Joined us and signed the blocking statute.

You have no allies left.

Meanwhile your retarded ambassador says that we are a worldpower and all Trump wants is that we act like one.

 

That's quite a leap, Mabelus. You can read what the Germans have to say abbout the problems of anti Americanism in Germany, noot just what 'Ive said. Check out Sobo's posts and the problems may become clearer.

There's no need to use "If". You can respond to what's

Not important. There was never any real American deal.

Nobody liked the deal, which is why Obama didn't take it before the Senate for approval. Your conspiracy theory has flaws.

Exactly. Go ahead and deal with Russia.

Then do it.

 

Give it your best shot.

 

The US may be Germany's enemy but Germany is certainly not a US enemy.

And with Merkel being so smart she'll probably get her way and leave the US behind.

That only leaves a couple of hundred countries left in the world to deal with. And I wouldn't be so sure about either of those countries over the longer term.

Yes, it will be lonely all right.

[/QUOTE] Can't beat an intelligent argument like that.

 

Good thing we don't hear any angry rants from the Germans.