Gaza Agreement ; Hamas prepares for unity government.

creation, et al,

I'm just making a comparison between your ad hominen attack (directed against a person rather than against his arguments) on "HBendor" (heart of bigoted Israeli opinion found in both Israel and the US) and of your position and stance.

(COMMENT)

The issue of the population transfer of 1948/49 Israel War of Independence is a matter yet to be resolved in negotiations between the 1948 Jewish State of Israel and the 1988 Arab State of Palestine. You are arguing a point in law that, when it was alleged to have been carried-out, was not illegal.

The Two-State solution is a reality which already exists (the 1948 Jewish State of Israel and the 1988 Arab State of Palestine) and is yet, to be determined as workable. While the the 1948 Jewish State of Israel has proven itself a viable and going concern, a nation capable of standing on its own, the 1988 Arab State of Palestine has yet been able to do so.

Any discussion on these points is exactly that --- a discussion. Each side will have a view counter to the other. What I'm trying to determine is the meaning, application and evidence you have for the assignment of the term "bigot."

• Are you saying that anyone that disagrees with you is automatically a bigot?
• Are you saying that anyone that holds to a different view than yours is a bigot?
• Are you saying that only you hold the only valid position?

I'm trying to understand the nature of your directed assault against "HBendor" rather than against his arguments; searching for the clear understanding.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

No you mis-understand completely, Hbendor wants population transfer now, we're not talking about 1948. He wants to see it now so that Israel can keep Judea and Samaria.

Please consider that Ive been on here a long time and know the characters I communicate with.

As for bigot, consider the definition and leave out silly games like how to assign it. The assignment is given as its commonly given, by reflection on the opinions expressed.

 

Fine, sounds fair. You keep to yourselves in Israel, Palestinians keep to themselves in the West Bank and Gaza.

Everybody is happy.

 

Why do Palestinians really want an Arab state inside Israel?

Watch to the far end of the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8fttHDj-y4

 

They want a Palestinian state inside Palestine. Jordan is an off shoot of the Palestinian area previously called Transjordan.

Time to leave Palestinians alone. Youre not from there, you dont live there and you dont need to be there now.

 

I am a Jerusalemite 5th generation... Sir please do not play games with history... There is no such a thing as Palestinian for this nomenclature was opted by Arafat and Nasser in 1964... Palestinians were the Jews Sir, Eretz Yisrael is Palestine... The Arabs and the Muslims are from the surrounding Arab Nations and a third of them are from Muslim Europe... Before making off the cuff statement , the Encyclopedia Britannica is a good start.

 

Eh no, Palestinians are indeed Palestinians, theyve been calling themselves this since before World War One.

Arabs and muslims are not from surrounding arab states, in fact most of the increase in the palestinian population from since before the turn of the 20th century was due to natural increase due to Ottoman improvements in living conditions and nothing to do with episodes of mass immigration.

And you live in Jerusalem, you do not need to annoy or live among Palestinians in East Jerusalem, the West Bank or Gaza. You dont live there now, youve never lived there, you didnt build their houses or farm their lands.

Before making off the cuff statements, please refer to actual population studies by independent scholars.

 

Not worth responding to emotional statements. Have a nice day!

 

Nothing emotional. Just straight verifiable demographic and historical facts. A pity you can't have a decent detached discussion over the evidence. Have a nice day too.

 

Background to my response...

This is something I wrote a long time ago and still valid today...

In addition, one has to understand that the conquering hordes of Islam in the seventh Century conquered Andalous (Spain) ruled it for 899 (Eight Hundred Ninety Nine years) when they were thrown out of Spain in 1609 CE... All that because they were not indigenous but conquerors.

The same thing is morphing today in Israel... There must be a semblance of <RECONQUISTA> for otherwise all of the Middle East will be in flames.

Syria in my eyes has already been given the <coup the grace>, Iraq is on the verge of being taken over and the next move will be Jordan... Israel is watching...

Today <Three Yeshivah Students> have been kidnapped and the Army is busy searching.

Let no one tell me that this <cancerous lot> is not orchestrating something similar in Israel proper

 

Creation in regards to your quotes:

In response to 1-Israel did not get rid of its terrorists only after it had border security. When it became a state, Irgun and the Stern Gang and the Levis Gang were outlawed. One of your problems Creation is you know nothing about Israeli history and will make no effort to find out. Go find out for yourself.

In response to 2- your response makes no sense. Muslim states exist all over the world not just the Middle East. Yet they deny the rights of Jews to have a Jewish state. You can't address that double standard so you did not respond to me you make some comment that completely ignored that fact. You say its silly...what is silly that there are in fact Muslim states that do not separate Islam from the state? Is that silly or reality? Why do you choose to continue to evade the fact that you can not justify Muslim states? The very argument you use to argue against a Jewish state must apply to Muslim states or do you believe Muslim states because they are Muslim should get a right Jews should not. Go on answer that. You have avoided that with me over and over. Explain why Muslims should have Muslim states but Jews should not have a Jewish state. What special formula do you use to justify this double standard? How is it you ignore the fact that each and every right a Muslim has in Israel a Jew or a Christian or a Bahaii or any other non Muslim does NOT have in a Muslim state? How is it you ignore that fact?

In regards to 3-I said the United Kingdom only recognized the Irish Republican Army and peace talks could only commence once the IRA disarmed and disavowed itself from terrorism. You again ignored what we were discussing and try change the subject. Why? Why can you not admit, peace talks could not come about in Northern Ireland until the IRA gave up its weapons? Why is it so hard for you to admit what is a fact? As well, how is it you can't admit Ireland is a Catholic State and the United Kingdom is directly affiliated with the Church of England or Anglican religion? How is you ignore that fact and at the pith and substance of the peace talks was a need to find a way to deal with tensions that evolved from the conflict between the Anglican, other Protestant and Catholic religions? How is it you try ignore all that and that it was essential to get leading Catholic and Protestant clergy to the table or peace talks to come about? You do realize the leader of Northern Ireland was a Protestant Minister do you not? You want me to go on do you? Creation there is no point ridiculing history it won't revise it or make it go away.

In regards to 4-you again believe because you have an opinion different than me and you continue to state yours, it somehow is magical and becomes more valid than mine. Why? You believe the West Bank is occupied. You believe because Israel came on to the West Bank its a pretext from which you can then deny its existence. That is what you have said. You don't stop at saying leave the West Bank. You never have. You have never stated you recognize a Jewish state in pre 1967 Israel. Never. Who are you kidding? This isn't about the occupation of the West Bank now is it. This is about you denying a Jewish state while in the same breath saying Muslims can have states but Jews can not. The West Bank is just a pretext from which you can justify your denial of Israel's right to exist. Here let me make it easy for you-I ain't takin the bait Creation. What I have said many times is, Israel if it is to achieve a long lasting and comprehensive peace deal may be required to withdraw from the West Bank. Yes its continued existence is directly related to the future of the West Bank. If Hamas and Fatah Hawks and Al Asqa Martyrs and the well over 300 other terror cells of Palestinians continue to operate out of the West Bank and Gaza this is a direct threat to Israel's existence You want Israel out of the West Bank, its easy, disarm the terrorists and they are gone.

In regards to 5, go on Creation find one post where I have criticized Palestinian people or Israeli people. Find one. I clearly differentiate my criticism of governments, politicians and terrorists from the people they claim to represent. Find one post where I criticized Palestinians for wanting to be in their own country or for being Palestinian. Who I do criticize is the Arab League of Nations, Arafat, Abbas, Hamas and the 300 other splinter terror cells. More to the point your response is just not true. At no time have I inferred what you said. The fact you call it an inference admits you never read it anywhere and its you inferring what you think I meant. Stop inferring and read what I wrote.

In regards to 6, if you had bothered to read my posts on this forum you would know in the past I have criticized the current Israeli government for not freezing settlement expansion. I criticized Netanyahu for his treatment of Joe Biden, the Vice President of the US when Biden visited Israel. I criticized Netanyahu for what I felt was overly adversarial relations with then French President Sarkozy. I criticized his appointing Lieberman Foreign Minister.

I criticize certain Israeli economic policies and the corruption that went on with its former President and Prime Minister. I criticized the former Prime Minster's decision to engage in a bombing of Lebanon rather than not react and use instead a different approach to respond to Hezbollah.

I like any supporter of Israel or Israeli have much I can disagree with. The point is you think because I won't question Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation that you can slap a simplistic label on me presuming you know what I think.

In response to 11 and 12, your comment makes no sense. The state of Israel never existed prior to 1949 and you said it did. Trying to call me a liar and attack me personally because what you said was wrong doesn't change the error of your statement. There was no Jewish state prior to 1949 and you well know that. Stop attacking me personally when you disagree with me.

In response to 13, you again attack me personally because you disagree with my opinion. Stop calling me dishonest because you have a difference of opinion with me. Every time you do that you lower yourself. Your difference of opinion with me does not make you "honest" any more than it makes me dishonest. Your name calling simply shows you have no response so you make a comment as to my character. You don't know me. Don't presume you do.

In regards to 14 should I call you dishonest because I disagree with you? Of course not but what I will do is say you are in my opinion in denial if you think Hamas has not been engaged in violence against Palestinians both in Gaza and on the West Bank and that even this week Hamas was involved in clashes with Fatah on the West Bank. How you can try to suggest Hamas ha curtailed its violence is past absurd.

In regards to 15 you again show that you think you can read my mind or the mind of others. In fact you can't. What you do is make presumptions as to what we think. Those presumptions are projected on to us by you. They are presumptions that simply reflect your own preconceive biases.

You need to stop telling other people what they think and simply ask them what they believe. Until you do-your mind and ears remain closed.

You can't even begin to hear what they are saying if you are too busy talking. Go on try it. Try listen to someone and talk at the same time it won't happen. You talk. You are so busy talking about what I or others think you can not hear us.

It is precisely why you are so quick to call us dishonest or claim to know our motives or project on to us all kinds of motives.

Stop talking about what you think people think and just listen. Palestinians and Israelis are pretty much thinking the same things-how to get jobs, how to find water, how to avoid terrorists and war, what to do about finding a place to live.

You clearly have never spoken to either have you. Admit it. You might think you know based on what you read on the inter net but you don't know. You won't know until you speak to both. Neither claim to be anything but over taxed, fed up with war, distrustful of politicians, worried about the future.

Neither claims perfection or imperfection or to know what is true or is not true. Those are words and concepts you use. I don't. I don't claim to now a thing about either people. I claim to have listened to both and now repeat what they both said.

Sorry to burst your bubble but neither told me anything spectacular. They are just people trying to survive.