German foreign minister criticizes Trump's 'America first' foreign policy

Insult away it doesnt change the fact that i showed the costs of these bases.

Btw foreign troops do train here so there goes that talking point of yours..

http://congressionalresearch.com/98-374/document.php

 

So do US troops in Germany -- that's what allies do, practice together.

And the cost you have shown is the cost to the US for the privilege to use German bases. It is in no way the same as the benefit to the German people, as Caligula has pointed out in a very well written post.

Look, nobody prevents the US from cutting down its bloated "defense" budget that is as large as that of the next 10 or 20 biggest spenders combined (didn't look up the exact numbers). I would be all for pulling out of Germany and South Korea and cutting the "defense" budget in half. I am not sure, though, that you would agree with it. You just want someone else to pay for it, someone else who didn't ask for our help. That, my friend, will not happen, as much as Trump and his supporters may think it will.

 

Nothing will change. He knows how Washington and the world works and he's been running a large international enterprise for years.

Furthermore, as a businessman he knows the importance of surrounding yourself with competent people, and I expect that he will do just that.

He knows what leadership and making deals is all about, but you're right - he will be judged on his performance. Unlike Obama, he won't have the luxury of having a sycophantic Leftist media judge him on his promise/potential. If elected, don't expect Trump to win an unearned Nobel Peace Prize during his first year in office.

 

I'm all for cutting the budget.... You assume alot and that is key here.

 

lol. germany will cry. remember the US base buys random supplies and the soldiers have to go on weekend leave somewhere. Just having a base nearby keeps some US towns in existence. I have difficulty thinking that these bases do not provide a massive boost to the local german economy.

But I am with you. pay more or the US soldiers go home. If we need a forward base vs iraq or whatever there is spain france etc. lots of available land.

 

I have grown up near a base in Wiesbaden, Germany. Guess how many US soldiers I have seen shopping and going to the bars? Maybe 10? The reality is that they stay on base and get their supplies form the PX.

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Maybe then we are on the same page. It is a reality, though, that Democrats are usually accused of traitors if they only mention touching the military budget.

 

this

 

and where does the PX buy its supplies? Do you think everything the PX has comes shipped from the US? or would it be logical they buy some from the local suppliers?

Btw you truly believe having a military base nearby is not a boost to a town? really? XD

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why cant germany hit the 2% target of nato?

 

Ask the German government which I'm no part of. Can't help you here.

 

1. Americans usually like to buy American products. The US military is actually famous for shipping things all over the world for their troops. For a while, service members could get their car shipped to an overseas location FOR FREE.

I am not saying that some German towns don't get a small economic benefit from the US troops being there. However, that benefit is counterbalance by cost (see Caligula's post) and by the privilege of the US to use Germany as a base.

2. Why can't the US hit the 2% NATO target? I would be fine with that too. If you don't need foreign wars, there would be no need for foreign bases. I am sure most foreign countries would be fine with it too. But stop pretending that the US military is some sort of charity institution to provide free "protection" for the rest of the world out of the goodness of our hearts.

 

Some Americans think that US military bases are wanted? Really?
Funny. Throughout history these things took treaties and alliances and unless you were a protectorate or the like you would never allow outright foreign bases.
Italians are no fonder of American bases than Germans. They would like nothing better than to see the Americans leave.

The stupidity coming from the USA increases daily. I highly doubt America will be allowed any presence in Europe with these kind of idiots being so close to the presidency.

 

the us is at like 3-4% double commitment.

then we agree germans dont want us there we dont us there we should leave

you should take a look at small american towns more. some of them would completely fold without the "small" economic benefit given by the bases next to them.

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then we should

 

We mainly buy Russia's natural recources cause it's cheap compared to the alternatives. America need not necessarily worry about Europe's invasion - they do anyway - but it isn't for their advantage that Russia takes what it wants. Don't be fooled to think Russia is not a threat to America just cause Trump thinks he has what it takes to deal with Putin.

 

I like your passion with trump. But will be be the man you want or expect?

Again I say political game has beaten bigger men. The harsh realities of events changing environments and landscapes.

Example Isis. Obama lost hunting them. Made him look weak. His grand speeches of sending additional troops to Syria won't change realities on ground. And these realities are waiting for trump.

I judge him then. When he stands alone and as you said his performance not his speeches.

 

Indeed. Except you won't. You want bases that can control the Mediterranean. You like having bases all over the world to project power and threaten whomever you deem the days enemy. The USA without foreign bases would lose most of it power to coerce and invade.

I prefer you start by admitting your abject failure in the war on drugs that you enforced on the world. You have ruined millions of lives and numerous countries with your stupidity.
The bases will go by popular opinion soon enough.

 

president Trump will ask... And allies will pay up

 

So... If the Germans want to set up a base somewhere on US soil it's ok if they just pay for it?
If Trump is President you can expect NATO to dissolve.

 

Germans are welcome to come, bring military equipment, well trained troops and personnel and protect the US. Are Germans willing to pay for the privilege?

PS I doubt NATO will dissolve. It's far more likely that NATO members will start meeting their contractual obligations and pay their predetermined share of expenses.

 

Would that be the same Trump who seems to have trouble getting the GOP nomination, even though he is running against a bunch of losers? Why doesn't he just ask Cruz to pay him for Cruz getting out of the race? Doesn't that sound utterly ridiculous? It is as ridiculous as asking foreign countries to pay the US for the privilege of being their occupier.

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Exactly! But you won't be able to get Trump afficionados to understand that.

 

I doubt many Americans would agree to let foreign troops have bases on US soil. I can imagine the threads by right wingers if Obama had done any such thing.

Most European countries have already commented negatively on Trump. Trump has also decided to meet someone like Salvini, an open racist and anti-EU candidate of the anti-Italian party Lega Nord.
Yeah... He definitely making friends in Europe. Reality-check.

 

I would agree with this. To me, US foreign politics, and especially military politics, would be unthinkable without this huge spider web of military bases around the globe. It's what keeps US dominance and hegemony alive. I think no US president would ever close down hundreds of bases and deprive the country of its pole position in international geopolitics.
Whether the next president's first name will be Donald or Hillary, neither he nor she would seriously think about putting the military-industrial-complex to an end. And I don't think they could.

The US spends more money on its military than all other NATO countries, Russia, and China combined. I for one think, this almost absurd situation will only change if the country can simply no longer afford this gigantic apparatus and is forced to make cuts. Until that moment comes, Washington won't stop defending and using its hegemony by maintaining hundreds and hundreds of bases.
As I've mentioned earlier, the NSA is currently building new headquarters in the German city of Wiesbaden, largly paid for by German taxmoney and the air base Ramstein plays a vital role in Obama's drone war. Nobody on this board will see the day when Washington stopps all this, these facilities are just too important for US dominance.

There is a very interesting Italian made documentary called "Standing Army" which used to be on youtube but was deleted unfortunately.

 

I don't understand why we're even arguing. You don't want American troops in your country on the cheap, you certainly don't want to pay the sticker price. Perfect, you should welcome Trump's foreign policy views then. He doesn't want American troops in your countries either.

PS rest assured we will remain friends but Euros will stop being freeloaders. Is it cool?

 

That's not it. Trump actually wants the US troops in foreign countries. He just thinks he can get those countries to pay for the troops. He won't!

And, as Caligula pointed out, no president will pull the troops from foreign bases. Because it would mean that the US has lost its hegemony.

 

Actually, he's not the man I want, but I do respect some of his personal qualities and experience. They will serve him well if he is elected president.

It is a big job, but I think he's up for it.:

“I like thinking big. I always have. To me it’s very simple: If you’re going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big.”
—Donald J. Trump

Another thing he has going for him is that he has built a career out of making deals, and international affairs are often just that - people making deals.

The problem with Obama is that he is weak - he's more of a woman than a man.

As for ISIS, that illustrates another problem with Obama - he won't stand up to Islamists and jihadists. If it wasn't for the public uproar following the beheadings of James Foley and Steven Sotloff he wouldn't be doing what little he is doing against ISIS right now. It was the American people - not ISIS itself - that compelled Obama to act. You're right - a few more Special Ops troops aren't going to change the situation on the ground in Syria (or Iraq and Libya, for that matter), but he has never been in this fight and never will be.

As well you should. People expect results, not excuses, and I after 8 years I am sick and tired of getting nothing but excuses...

 

Oh you're so wrong. Trump is running against the entire Republican establishment, their political machine and their virtually unlimited resources...against the entire American and foreign media spewing anti-Trump hysteria and lies 24/7...and indeed against 17 losers to boot, who still managed to pony up more than $100 millions and spent the entire amount on anti-Trump ads. And he is the nominee despite all that.