Germany makes a 180° U-turn, now supplies weapons and massively rearms!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Mandelus, Feb 27, 2022.

  1. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    At the moment we have a special session of the Bundestag (parliament) in Germany because of the Ukraine war.

    First of all, I would like to make it clear that since the last election at the end of last year, Germany is governed by a coalition of the SPD (social democrats), the Greens (eco/environmental protection and peace movement party) and the FDP (liberals, but not liberal in the sense that Americans understand the term, rather something like the Tea Party movement and arch-capitalist).

    Last night Chancellor Scholz announced that Germany would deliver 1,000 Panzerfaust 3 and 500 Stinger missiles to Ukraine. That alone is already a historical turning point, because Germany and arms exports outside of NATO allies is a hot topic for historical reasons (World War II).
    This applies not only politically, but also legally, because exports to a war zone are ... let's call it "sporty" ... in order to do them legally secure them under German law. THIS IS OVER NOW...

    But this government coalition, which I personally never thought capable of doing it, goes even further...much further!
    When Trump was still US President, there was an endless discussion about evil Germany not meeting its financial obligations in NATO because Germany does not put 2% of GDP into defense. The fact that according to the Treaty of Wales in 2014 this is only mandatory from 2024, that was of course dismissed and denied by the Trumponians, even if it says so in black and white in the 2014 agreement!

    Anyway, the German government has now announced that it will increase the current budget from almost 52 billion dollars to over 150 billion dollars!

    THIS INCREASE catapults us from 7th to 3rd place in military spending in the entire world, right behind the US with US$650 billion and China with around US$250 billion.
    India is in fourth place with a good 72 billion dollars, followed by Russia with just under 62 billion dollars!

    I hope all those who idiotically beat up Germany here in the forum during Trump's reign are now very humble and applaud!
    I also hope that ... Putin and pro-Putin trolls aside ... no one here starts any stupid and idiotic saying about Germany arming like Hitler did! Then it's time for these morons to an for them unpleasant "party" with me...

    Last but not least, I would like to mention that various administrative nonsense in the German armed forces seems to have stopped.
    Not only do we fly the Typhoon as our main fighter, but only our Typhoons have twice the ground time of any other Typhoon user. Why? Because if the supply of spare parts for the Air Force is semi-privatized and the storage of spare parts is more of a foreign, unfamiliar word for the civilian idiots responsible, then Typhoons will just be on the ground longer! THIS WILL BE OVER NOW!

    Thanks to Putin's criminal attack on Ukraine, the German eagle has been awakened and put into total defense mode under a government coalition never thought capable of this before!
    Well noted and said clearly ... defense, not aggression!
     
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  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a Hitler connection in all this trouble, and it doesn't come from Germany.

    Hitler and Putin.jpg
     
  3. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Great news. I spent about half my twenty years in the American Army in Germany and love the place. I always enjoyed working with the German Army on joint exercises.

    I see you use American Stingers for Air Defense (good choice). But I'm disappointed to see you use Panzerfaust 3. It has a range of 300 meters against a moving target and 400 against a stationary one. It is not terminally guided so a target moving erratically to avoid engagement can probably beat it. Javelin has a range in excess of 2,500 meters and is terminally guided (by the round itself) so it stays on the target no matter how it moves. It is "fire and forget" and no human interaction is required beyond trigger pull. Maybe, now that you have the increased defense budget, we can a work a deal for some Javelins!

    What Germany is doing is all good news. I don't see how some people are still thinking about WWII, but what's going on... helping a free people fight for their freedom... should solve a lot of that.

    Trump didn't mean to upset you... he was just trying to strengthen NATO. As it turns out, that was a good idea.

    So... congratulations on the changes!
     
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  4. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a good first step.

    Germany has the biggest economy in the EU and has been historically massively underfunded their contribution to NATO. That is all Trump said.

    Hopefully this sticks moving forward.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  5. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Just remember that the US, Russia, Britain and France all have nukes with German destinations if they get one inch out of line. There isn't a single German military officer that doesn't know this in their bones.
     
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  6. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no! Trump demanded that we had to uprise our spend directly and he denied the Wales agreement where it is written that onyl from 2024 on a duty!

    But I think that being now number 3 in the world is not only a first step ... it is necessary without any doubt, but spending now more as Britain and France - the 2 other NATO nuclear powers and having aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines - together is a clear statement, isn't it?

    Oh ... US, Britain and France ... our allies ... have fears you say? Maybe we shall not invest the money into military you mean?
    But don't worry... You erased militarism from our consciousness so thoroughly on May 8th, 1945 that it still has an effect today.
    This is about a massive modernization and material rearmament and improvement of ... let's say administration ... and everything defensive and only within the framework of the defense of NATO!
    Even if far-righties are already calling for the reintroduction of compulsory whistling, that will not happen.
    But for your information ... we could have a large nuclear arsenal in less than a month if we wanted to, but nobody wants that (except for the 0.1% idiots that are everywhere).
     
  7. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like all NATO countries Germany agreed back in 2014 to increase their contribution to NATO to 2% of GDP by 2024. With the more immediate threat created by Russia they have decided to increase their defense spending for their own armed services right away.

    Germany is committing 100 billion euros ($112.7 billion) to a fund for its armed services and will ramp up its defense spending above 2% of its gross domestic product, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said during a special session of the Bundestag on Sunday.

    It has become clear that “we need to invest significantly more in the security of our country, in order to protect our freedom and our democracy,” Scholz said.

    Germany has been widely criticized for what many describe as meager investment in its military and its slow and lackluster response to Russia’s military buildup around, and subsequent invasion of, Ukraine. The announcement Sunday followed the German government’s decision Saturday to send weapons and other supplies directly to Ukraine.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/27/sch...e-spending-increase-in-shift-in-strategy.html
     
  8. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    There is an important translation error ...

    It is not now 100 billion Euro budget ... it is increased for further 100 billion Euros, means from about 52 billion last year to 150 billion now ;-)
     
  9. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    All I'm saying is that NATO or not, the absolute quickest way to get France, Britain, the US and Russia to all aim their arsenals in the same direction is for Germany to get froggy again. It is what it is.
     
  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And very necessary of course ...
    When Germany was weak in military ... this was wrong
    When Germany is now armig up for defense of their own and NATO ... this is something which you don't trust really...

    Strange ...
     
  11. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Which is why, no matter how close we may be diplomatically, the coordinates of every German military installation, industrial, infrastructure and population center are in a war plan option for strategic or tactical nuclear release, and it's constantly updated. Fighting you in two world wars puts you permanently on the list. It is what it is.
     
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  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    According to my information, that's not true, because there aren't enough carrier systems to target us in Germany AND all the other really bad targets...

    But you do realize that we already have, and have long had, indirect access to a few dozen nuclear weapons? In the event of war, for example, American atomic bombs, which are already stationed on the German air bases, are placed under German Tornado jets!
    Honestly and personally, this WWII hint pisses me off! That was almost 80 years ago and hardly anyone from back then is still alive.
     
  13. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    I stand by what I said. What is happening in Ukraine shows that grudges that are centuries old still have life in them today. As long as history remembers the name Hitler your country will be on the list.

     
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  14. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Well... the crimes of the Allies against us in both world wars are still conscious among us... but in a way without even beginning to think about any kind of revenge.
    We are also generally aware of the crimes of others against whomever ... but not in a way that we want to sugarcoat the Holocaust or anything like that, because that's a guilt that we carry and we committed.
    Only others should maybe start thinking about their crimes in the same way ;-)
    Anyway... off topic! The fact is that now nobody can blame Germany for anything about defense and military spending.
     
  15. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And Putin just put his nuclear forces on their highest level of alert a few hours ago. Do you need a bigger signal?

    America is not screwing around with a 3rd world nation. They are screwing around with a nation that has the power to end all life on earth in less than a day.

    Biden/Harris need to be removed immediately along with all the idiots who were unable to keep this conflict from occurring. We need real diplomats in their now. Keeping necons/neolibs in power is now an existential threat to America.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  16. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    As long as history remembers the name Hitler your country will be on the list.
     
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  17. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    AND THIS IS WRONG ON ONE HAND AND NOT REALLY TRUE ON OTHER HAND!
     
  18. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Our nuclear hammer is just as big. MAD applies if you're under a 15 kt firecracker or Tsar Bomba. Incineration is incineration. The rest is just making the rubble bounce. Putin - and you - need to understand that we've been prepared to make the rubble bounce for 77 years. That's the heart of deterrence. And since we're the only country on earth that has demonstrated the huevos to actually make the rubble bounce - TWICE - Putin would be wise to be deterred. If not, so be it.

    BUT:

    274879933_278985654366440_5678166512872386831_n.jpg

    1584414804.3941-smiley.gif 1584414804.3941-smiley.gif 1584414804.3941-smiley.gif
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  19. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Tell yourself that. There are 100 million dead in two world wars who might disagree.
     
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  20. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Which Germany is not solely to blame for, as you know yourself if you are honest with yourself!
    For me, for example, new that we Germans are also to blame for the Chinese slaughtered by the Japanese, which are included in your 100 million.
    But be that as it may... it is what it is! Only we Germans don't put up with all impudence anymore and be glad that we don't want nuclear armament and that we as a country are more peace-loving than anyone else in Europe ... which we were and are accused of as a mistake too!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  21. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    You don't want nuclear arms because you know, deep down, that the US, France, Britain and Russia would simultaneously cause the extinction of Germany if you tried to build them. It is what it is. 77 years is still way too soon to forget, no matter how much you may wish it weren't so.
     
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  22. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Do you honestly think you would get that month? Truly?
     
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  23. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NATO guidelines indicate member countries spend at least 2% of GDP on defense.

    In 2021, Germany only spent 1.53%.

    It is sad that it took the invasion of Ukraine for Germany to see the importance, but at least they are now meeting the requirements.
     
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  24. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since 2006 this has been a requirement.

    In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending to continue to ensure the Alliance's military readiness.

    Trump simply called them out for not upholding their obligation.
     
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  25. Chuck711

    Chuck711 Well-Known Member

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    President Biden has showed again what a strong and smart Leader he is.

    By making for the first time intelligence info public as the troops amassed and showed the truth in Putin Lies

    the world has moved against Putin quickly

    Denied Swift banking access

    Provided additional money and weapons to fight Putin ( without asking for bribes )

    Pulled in EU support to fight Putin

    Germany now increasing its military budget by $113 Billion ( 2 X that of Russia budget )

    Thank God and Bless America we have a steady hand Leading our country
     

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