Get out of Afghanistan everyone!

The bodies in those graves were killed between the 80s and early 90s. I wonder what took America so long to take any action.

Are you aware of all the children who died due to the sanctions that America spearheaded and imposed against Iraq?

Infrastructure? Are you aware of the current situation of Iraq's infrastructure?

Yes, Iraq was absolutely better before America invaded. There was stability. This is something Westerners living in peaceful suburbs don't understand. This a region where everyone hates each other. Your solutions are twofold:

1) a brutal dictator that keeps things in order; or

2) you divide everyone up.

And, of course, America didn't understand that. Some of the humorous charterers in this thread believed you 'lost'
the war because you didn't use enough force. I'll just point them to Syria, where Assad has practically destroyed the country, and the opposition (after three years) are still going at it.

No, you lost the war because you didn't understand the region. The Ottomans did, and that's why the ruled over it for hundreds of years. The Europeans did, and that's why they were able to rule over it for until everyone got their independence. Tell me, Mushroom, what was their secret?

Of course; you come in, (*)(*)(*)(*) everything up, and leave. And then you question why people fly airplanes into your towers.

 

Wow, talk about revisionist history!

And this goes back again, during the 1980's and early 1990's, what was the government in charge? You call taht a success?

And no, this was not "spearheaded by the US", but an almost universal demand from the UN.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 661 was passed with 15 yes votes, 2 abstained (Yemen and Cuba).

United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 was passed by the same body, with only Cuba voting no.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 706, once again Cuba voting no.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 712, once again only Cuba saying no.

And the biggest beneficiary of the Oil for Food program? Russia, with over 1.66 billion barrels of oil to the state alone.

Try actually using facts and truth, not half-baked propaganda.

As for why it went on so long (and also in Syria, Darfur, Somalia, former Yugoslavia, Lebanon), I lay the blame for that on the UN. They have shown this strong tendency to ignore atrocities and massacres and slaughters of people, and doing damned little other then send in some Blue Helmets who then try to act like traffic cops and in reality do nothing.

 

Indeed.

The Saddam regime, the government that the US had ties to.

Straw man.

None of this proves that the US, the most powerful nation on earth with immense political leverage (especially during that time), did not spearhead the sanctions against Iraq. The US may not be solely to blame for what happened in Iraq, but they are primarily responsible.

No, it's just that it wasn't in the US's political interest to do so. Why else did America have such close ties with Iraq when Saddam was killing Shiites left and right?

That the UN is generally useless is a given, of course.

 

The US government also had ties to the Iranian government, your point is?

Oh, wait. You don't have one. You simply throw around innuendo, damned no matter which way.

Translation: "I can't defend my claim, so I am going to claim "does not apply".

Oh yes, the US has both China, as well as the Soviet Union/Russia wrapped around their little finger, and neither of them will dare oppose anything that the US wants.

*laugh*

Care to try again?

Uh-huh. How about the government of Iraq is responsible for what happened in Iraq?

Look, is it such an amazingly difficult thing to accept, that people do bad things, and they and nobody else are responsible for them? The Khmer Rouge was a "Communist" government, but I sure as hell do not place the blame for them on the Soviet Union or China. WWII Germany was "National Socialist", and inspired by Italy. But I do not blame Italy or the Republic of China (another National Socialist government that predated Nazi Germany) with their excesses. They did that all on their own, and it was nobodies fault but theirs.

And I certainly do not blame every government or company that did business with them either.

I find it both childish and mentally deranged to just go "Oh, that is the fault of the US", that is demented Conspiracy Theory reasoning.

Myself, I simply chalk it up to the leadership of Iraq being bad and run by bad people, like that of the Khmer Rouge, or Nazi Germany, or a great many others. And the US did try to get involved in Somalia, in case you forgot.

But nice to see we agree about the UN. I wish it was otherwise, but I have not seen any real UN successes since the early 1970's to be honest. And it is sad, but I do not expect that to change any time in the future.

 

My point is that if the US cared so much about all those mass graves, they wouldn't have had close ties with the regime in the first place (at the time when Saddam was massacring Shiites and whatnot). Like I said, it's all politics.

I never made the claim that the government was successful; hence the straw man.

Your words, not mine.

Like I said above, the US is not solely to blame.

Not in this case.

I agree, which is why I did not argue that.

 

Oh yes, we had such close ties that we had 2 wars against them.

Sheesh, why can't you get off of the politics and propaganda and realize some facts? The US is no more the fault of what happened in Iraq then South Africa is. So WTF are you trying to make pointless connections for?

When somebody does something bad, I do not immediately look for somebody else to blame. But you seem to blame everything on the US. Are you saying no nations have free will? Sorry, blaming everything on the US is as demented as people who blame everything on the Jews.

 

I'm talking about the period before the two wars.

Pointless connections? Are you arguing that the sanctions (and the extent of these sanctions) were not spearheaded by the US?

Where is exactly have I blamed everything on the US? I think you've just gotten used to having discussions with people who repeatedly- and without warrant- pin the blame on the US.

 

OK, and you can't argue both of those points at the same time.

Sorry, I am done here. You can't even make consistent points, you just keep bouncing to the same thing over and over again - "Blame the US".

The US is to blame both before, during, and after the wars. This is pointless.

 

You are done here? What a pity!

 

Is that praiseworthy while 2 coalition forces died and 16 people in Iraq just over the last weekend?
Americans have become smart - they use drones! I think both countries, Afghanistan and Iraq are miserable places - thanks to the USA!

 

If you read everything I posted you would see that I said they could disconnect the Transponder in the Pilots cabin but not the additional data stream locators built into a 777.

AboveAlpha

 

Mushroom ran out of arguments; I will tell you who is to blame: Israel and their various lobbies, with AIPAC being the most powerful.
Here is an excerpt from the link below:

Please, read all in the link...
http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/is-israel-to-blame-for-the-iraq-war/

Not to miss General Wesley Clarks explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

 

Uh-huh. I think someone needs to vastly improve his comprehension abilities.