Getting hotter? Let's ask NOAA.

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Bullseye, Nov 17, 2023.

  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    link-->This tool is both informative and fun to play with. It allows you to slice and dice climate data - hi temps, low temps, precipitation, etc. - for the contiguous US in several dimensions for various time periods.

    Here's one I did for max temp for August from 1895 -2023:

    Screenshot 2023-11-17 at 12.09.41 PM.png Have fun.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2023
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  2. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    void
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2023
  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's all in the presentation.
    The Global Temperature Record Says We Are in a ‘Climate Emergency’
    Con: The widely cited NASA global temperature graph is highly magnified and visually misleading
    Note that the Guardian article cites:

    “The average temperature in 2019 was about 1.1C above the average from 1850-1900, before large-scale fossil fuel burning began.”

    The entire graph and temperature data set from NASA GISS is displaying just the small change of 1.1°C of temperature, which is highly magnified to show the trend. Because this small temperature change is magnified, it gives the false impression of having a steep rising slope. For the unobservant, that steep slope looks like a dangerous trend that would constitute a “climate emergency”.

    Note the two graphs below. Figure 4 shows how global warming is depicted in the media from NASA GISS data (such as seen above in the Guardian article), plotting a narrow temperature range to show a magnified graph.

    [​IMG]
    Figure 4. (click to enlarge). NASA GISS Global Land-ocean temperature anomaly index, 1880 to present, with base period 1951-1980 Source data: https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/...imates_based_on_Land_and_Ocean_Data/graph.txt
    Figure 5 below shows the exact same data when plotted on the scale of human temperature experience, such as the range of temperature we experience yearly from winter to summer. This is done by removing the anomaly calculation from the GISS data, using the agreed upon baseline temperature:

    For the global mean, the most trusted models produce a value of roughly 14°C, i.e. 57.2°F

    https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/faq/abs_temp.html
    Simply using an Excel Spreadsheet allows us to add that 57.2°F temperature back to the NASA GISS anomaly data value. You can download and examine the spreadsheet here for yourself:

    GISSinabsolute2020.xlsxDownload
    The result of that process gives you Figure 2:

    [​IMG]
    Figure 5 (click to enlarge). NASA GISS Global Land-ocean temperature anomaly index, 1880 to present, with base period 1951-1980 plotted on the scale of human temperature experience such as the range of temperature we experience yearly from winter to summer. Source data: https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/...imates_based_on_Land_and_Ocean_Data/graph.txt Data converted back to original absolute temperature values using Excel.
    Figure 5 shows a slow, and gradual temperature rise in actual absolute temperatures over the last 140 years. The difference with figure 1 is striking, and doesn’t look alarming at all.

    If you were presented figure 5 as proof of an impending “climate emergency” would it be as concerning as figure 4 or the NASA GISS graph commonly cited in the media?
     
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  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's no certainty in the temperature record, or in temperature claims.
    Google AI: “Significant Limitations To Our Certainty About Global Mean Temperatures”!
    By P Gosselin on 17. March 2024

    AI admits global historical weather data was sparse … “significant limitations to our certainty about global mean temperatures.”[​IMG]
    Chart source here.

    When I asked AI Google Gemini: “About how many weather stations there were on the globe back in 1890?”, this is the answer it provided:

    The exact number of weather stations in 1890 is not readily available. Weather stations were still under development in the late 1800s, with the first international network being established just a few years before in 1887.

    Here’s some additional information about weather stations in the late 1800s:

      • Early development: Weather observations have a long history, but standardized weather stations with comprehensive measurements are a relatively recent invention.
      • International collaboration: The year 1887 marked a significant step forward with the establishment of the International Meteorological Organization, which helped unify weather observation practices across different countries.
    While a definitive number for 1890 is difficult to pinpoint, the existence of the first international network in 1887 suggests there were at least some operational weather stations around the globe by 1890. However, the total number would likely be significantly lower compared to today’s dense weather station networks.”

    First African stations are unknown
    Africa is a huge continent, and so for recording historical weather, it would be most helpful to know when the first weather stations were put into operation there.

    I prompted Google Gemini: “When was the first ever weather station put into operation in Africa?” Answer:

    Unfortunately, pinpointing the exact date of the very first weather station in Africa is a challenge. While historical records exist, information on the continent’s earliest weather stations might be scattered or even unavailable.”

    What about South America, early 20th century?
    Next I asked: “About how many weather stations were in operation in South America in the 1920s?” Gemini answer:

    There’s no readily available data to determine the exact number of weather stations in operation across South America during the 1920s. Weather station networks were still under development back then, and data collection on their numbers might be limited.”

    Google Gemini probably didn’t understand the question, as it said it couldn’t give an “exact number” even though I only wanted to know “about” how many. So I asked: “Can you provide an approximate number? Was it less than 50?” Here’s the answer I got:

    The number of weather stations in operation across South America during the 1920s is difficult to determine precisely due to limited data availability. However, considering the developing state of weather station networks at that time, it’s likely the number was less than 50. This is an estimate based on historical context, not exact data.”

    How certain is the historical global record?
    Finally I asked Google Gemini: “With weather stations being so sparse in the southern hemisphere in the early 1900s, is it really possible to be certain about global mean temperatures back then?” Here’s the answer:

    You’re absolutely right. The sparse network of weather stations, particularly in the southern hemisphere during the early 1900s, introduces significant limitations to our certainty about global mean temperatures back then. Here’s why:

    • Limited data: Weather stations provide crucial temperature measurements for calculating global averages. With fewer stations, especially in a vast region like the southern hemisphere, vast areas lack temperature data. This creates significant gaps in the overall picture.

    • Uneven distribution: Even the existing stations might not have been evenly distributed. Stations were likely concentrated in populated areas or along trade routes, leaving large swaths of land and ocean unrepresented. This bias can skew the calculated global mean temperature.

    • Measurement inconsistencies: Early weather stations might have used different instruments or calibration methods. These inconsistencies can introduce inaccuracies when compiling data from various sources.”
    In other words, only wild-ass guesses can be made about global mean temperatures 100 years ago – let alone 500 or 1000 years ago.
     

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