Greta Thunberg is Bob Brown's Climate Caravan Scaled Up

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Steady Pie, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hi,

    I am worried about climate change, which is why I worry about Greta.

    It occured to me that her tactics are effectively just Bob Brown's Queensland protest scaled up to the UN. Did that work in Queensland? On the contrary, it lost the left the unlosable election.

    The problem at its core for this sort of activism is that in democracies you need to convince large swathes of the people.

    People don't change their minds because you talk down to and berate them. That's not how human nature works. Confronted with insufferable nagging by elite-supported public figures, people tend to embolden, not disarm.

    What's your view?
     
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  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well for a start I would like to see the real guilty party addressed

    China's economy slows down in 2015 and CO2 emissions growth drop from 6.7% to 1.2%!!! What does that tell you

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2015/12/08/global-co2-emissions-are-set-to-stall-in-2015
     
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  3. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are making the argument for the internationalists, who will use this as an excuse to consolidate power.

    I think part of the problem is that a lot of the people I know who vote liberal are very pro-environment. Campers are obsessive about "leave nothing but footprints", hunters are concerned about stocks and ensuring minimal suffering, etc. Most are also concerned about air pollution in cities.

    Perhaps if the climate change crowd argued more on these issues - if they proposed making city air smell as sweet as country air, they'd have some success.

    The yellow vest protests in Paris shows that even in a city with 75%+ belief in human caused climate change there are often wild disagreements over the prognosis and its effect on common people.

    _____________________

    At its core the issue is that it doesn't help to circle jerk with your own side - you need to build consensus.

    Western nations are still nominally democratic. It is not enough to preach to the choir, they need to be doing outreach and speaking on the right's terms if they want any progress.
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I agree China is guilty BUT they have not pulled out of the Paris agreement. Admittedly that agreement favoured “developing” countries and should be renegotiated but that will only happen if ALL parties are on board
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Some campers might be obsessed with leaving nothing but footprints bit you also have those who would happily drive a 4 wheel drive over a sacred site, wash their car in a fresh water lake......using degreaser that they let run off into the lake.....

    And we have our fair share of yahoos
     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I burned a 150 old tires in my yard today, on the smoldering heap. I burned the toxic insulation off 5 tons of copper wire, put the smoldering remains out with some toxic chemicals i needed to get rid of. Loaded it into my old diesal truck, dumped it in the river and washed the bed out with roundup.

    Think that sounds bad? Pales compared to the Mosaic Phosphate Co.
    They want to mine 19K acres here in our county. For every ton of phosphate, they make 5 tons of radioactive gympsum waste. Until Florida Democrats stand up to it, i find their "environmentalism" hard to take seriously.

    Florida Sinkhole at Mosaic Fertilizer $ite Leaks Radioactive ...

    https://www.youtube.com › watch
    [​IMG]▶ 22:02

    Sep 16, 2016 - Uploaded by Indegruv
    Orlando Weekly News Arts Music Screens Food & Drink Calendar Best Of Orlando Special Issues Galleries ...
     
  7. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As someone who is rather prominent in the 4WD industry, both in business and personally, who routinely travels all across Australia, including free camping in remote areas hundreds of kilometers from any law enforcement or rangers - let me tell you that this is not the majority.

    Most are very concerned with ensuring our continued use of this great land.

    I rarely find rubbish left at popular free camping sites, and if I do I take it back with me. There are a few *******s here and there just as there are in every community. Strangely enough it is the 2WD access DPAW owned camping sites that are often littered out, in my view because people don't feel the sense of responsibility and are less likely to have experience at such sites.

    As an example, we know of a leased fisherman's shack on the South WA coast just off the national park. We met the owner there once and he's fine with anyone using it. The pantry is always stocked, bottles of spirit are always on the shelf, people take things and replace them, leave more than they used, all that good stuff. Indeed, this even sounds vaguely communal - something you might not expect from such people.

    The vast majority are quite interested in environmental issues, albeit with a more working class bent. When you go up to Ningaloo every couple of years it's hard to ignore the coral bleaching problem. When you have spent 3 weeks in a rural area you notice the smell of pollution when you return.

    My point is not that those of us who enjoy the great outdoors are angels or anything, but there are lines you can take to convince these people and I have not seen any legitimate attempt to do so.

    Which is a shame because as the past election shows, in a representative democracy you have to build consensus to get anything done.
     
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo

    In how many of those places is there still loo paper in the toilets?:p
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Our state is literally being raped, strip mining. I hear nothing about this from the left. On Sep 30 they have a hearing to be allowed to dump over 2 million gallons of wastewater PER DAY, into the Peace river, 40 miles upstream from us. Our drinking water comes from there. Where is the left?
     
  10. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would be surprised. The iron boot of the WA police is not the only reason people act ethically. Most people are good people.

    I left a valuable car on the side of a track for 3 months due to axle snapping, expecting it to be completely pilfered when I came back.

    Nothing was stolen, someone had taken distributor cap lines and put them in the glove box. What a legend!

    Also, if you know the 4WD community you know they'd steal the spirit bottles way before they stole the toilet paper :lick:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  11. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    The point is my tiny footprint doesn't make the slightest difference, we use solar panels, recycle, I work from home so don't even drive every day. Zali Stegal with her SUV, wants to rip the bottom out of our economy with her Climate Change Emergency but truth is there is no crisis in Australia the crisis is elsewhere and largely being ignored. Will she feed all the families who lose their jobs.

    The biggest polluters are the problems we need to address because those will actually make a difference. Air Pollution kills, it is a huge crises in many cities... killing children and adults. While countries like Australia who do not even come close to the same level of pollution are targeted by the the UN, Pacific and China... which is ridiculous (China pointing a finger at us). I




    Mongolia's air pollution crisis https://www.unicef.org/mongolia/Mongolia_air_pollution_crisis_ENG.pdf

    South Africa... due to Corruption and Affirmative Action the collapsing power grid is killing people with pollution
    People Are Dying From Eskom’s Pollution in South Africa
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-27/eskom-is-killing-south-africans-with-its-china-level-pollution

    China https://www.boredpanda.com/pollutio...ckgo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic


    India - Eleven out of the 12 most polluted cities on a World Health Organization list were in India.
    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels-air-delhi-health

    Cities with the highest small particulate measurements in the world
    Country City PM2.5 (µg/m³)
    India Kanpur 173
    India Faridabad 172
    India Varanasi 151
    India Gaya 149
    India Patna 144
    India Delhi 143
    India Lucknow 138
    Cameroon Bamenda 132
    India Agra 131
    India Muzaffarpur 120
    India Srinagar 113
    India Gurgaon 113
    World Health Organization

     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  12. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the 10% cowboys do more damage to our parks and beaches then is made up for by the 90% picking up their rubbish.
     
  13. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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  14. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Donor

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    Clearly... and when we all go into recession you Climate Changers can rejoice the drop in emissions....except of course for those who are too busy scrounging for food and a roof over their heads
     
  15. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    She is needed, desperately needed.
    All the Trumps of this world won't change, but more and more peope do.
    The problem of our planet are the conservative rightwingers.
    However people wake up, everywhere...
    Adani was a mistake, and it will take longer in our country, until people realize.
    Jobs, the main excuse....
    Reg.
     
  16. Robert Urbanek

    Robert Urbanek Active Member

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    Sometimes there is no nice way to deliver a message. Was there a nice way to tell the South that slavery was wrong? The pig-headed deniers of climate change are not interested in any data or arguments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  17. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's different when you're in a state of war. The analogous situstion here would be some sort of climate dictatorship. But we aren't in a dictatorship so you have to convince these people.

    And you don't do that with the Bob Brown strategy.
     
  18. Violet_Crumble

    Violet_Crumble Active Member

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    Stupid me. I didn't even know who Greta was until she went to that UN Summit.

    I think the best way to convince people who dont think climate change is a problem is to show them the effects of climate change in a way that impacts them personally. For my brother who argued with me that climate change doesnt exist when we drove up the coast from Canberra to Brisbane, it took the return inland trip and seeing the dried up rivers and paddocks of nothing but dust (south of Cowra all turned green again) for him to admit there's a problem.

    The big problem is even if every Australian and the govt was on board and wanted to do everything we can to stop the damage, there's still China and a bunch of developing nations and third world countries like the US that need to be convinced....
     
  19. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    True but we won't convince them saying "hey you guys are doing most of the pollution, fix it while we do nothing "
    Like they are going to give us an advantage no we have to act first then we can argue others do
     

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